The Book of Revelations, has it already happened?

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I have this strange belief that the book of revelations has already happened long ago.

That most of the event described in the book of revelations happened while Jesus was in the grave.

That the book of revelations should maybe have been placed directly after the gospels, then the church Epistles after revelations.

This a general discussion of the book but I would like to consider it in the light I have cast it in here.

Maybe the heavens and the earth have passed away? Maybe we are already in heaven?

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You're not the first one to have that feeling, Rex. Some theologians have concluded that all the symbolism in Revelations actually refers to current events and people in the world of St. John the Divine, the putative author, rather than to events and people of the distant future. It's likely that most of the author's contemporaries would have recognized these allegorical and metaphorical references immediately and found the book more of a satire than a prophecy.

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I believe we are already living in the new heaven and earth and this new heaven and earth happened before the day of Pentecost.

This is why time began again at the year zero two-thousand years ago.

These truths have been lost.

2Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Comment:
This is why "fire" came down from heaven.

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Yep. There was a very interesting special on the Discovery channel (I think) where some theologians said that the symbolism referred to the Roman emperor and events of that time. It was very interesting and I found it convincing. I'll see if I can find it.

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I was wrong, it was the History channel's Mysteries of the Bible series. Unfortunately, I can only find it for sale.

http://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Revelation-History-Channel-Archives/dp/B0007WFUHY

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Definitions (Merriam Webster)
Cycle: (n) 1 : an interval of time during which a sequence of a recurring succession of events or phenomena is completed *a 4-year cycle of growth and development*
2 a : a course or series of events or operations that recur regularly and usually lead back to the starting point b : one complete performance of a vibration, electric oscillation, current alternation, or other periodic process c : a permutation of a set of ordered elements in which each element takes the place of the next and the last becomes first d : a takeoff and landing of an airplane
3 : a circular or spiral arrangement: as a : an imaginary circle or orbit in the heavens b : RING 10
4 : a long period of time : AGE
5 a : a group of creative works (as poems, plays, or songs) treating the same theme b : a series of narratives dealing typically with the exploits of a legendary hero *the Arthurian cycle*
6 a : BICYCLE b : TRICYCLE c : MOTORCYCLE
7 : the series of a single, double, triple, and home run hit in any order by one player during one baseball game

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Mindonfire wrote:

Definitions (Merriam Webster)
Cycle: (n) 1 : an interval of time during which a sequence of a recurring succession of events or phenomena is completed *a 4-year cycle of growth and development*
2 a : a course or series of events or operations that recur regularly and usually lead back to the starting point b : one complete performance of a vibration, electric oscillation, current alternation, or other periodic process c : a permutation of a set of ordered elements in which each element takes the place of the next and the last becomes first d : a takeoff and landing of an airplane
3 : a circular or spiral arrangement: as a : an imaginary circle or orbit in the heavens b : RING 10
4 : a long period of time : AGE
5 a : a group of creative works (as poems, plays, or songs) treating the same theme b : a series of narratives dealing typically with the exploits of a legendary hero *the Arthurian cycle*
6 a : BICYCLE b : TRICYCLE c : MOTORCYCLE
7 : the series of a single, double, triple, and home run hit in any order by one player during one baseball game

Hmmm,

The cycles you see may be small battles still raging on but the war is over...

Did I interpret your intention right Mind?

Smile

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Are we already in heaven?

Eph 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Comment:
"Hath raised" is past tense verb.

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Ga 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

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The Epistles teach that we can just speak to God and we do not need a priest.

Why? Because we are already with God...

1Co 1:28 -
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

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I wonder that a few of the things mentioned in the book of revelations may not have happened yet and may still be future.

Possibly judgment day is still in the future.

But... even judgment day may have already happened.

There is a possibility that every prophecy in the book of revelations has already happened.

This would make sense that meeting the lord in the clouds will be the only future event of note.

Even the lake of fire and the death being swallowed up in victory may have already happened.

People look at the death in the world and say death has not been cast into the lake of fire yet?

But if they valued the spiritual world more they would realize that death has no dominion over them any longer.

We have died to one world and now live in a new heaven and earth.

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Re 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

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Sorry, but with the whole book so heavily laden in symbolism and metaphor, and frankly smacking of a really good mushroom trip, I have a hard time believing that those are actual events.

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Agreed. I much prefer what Ralph Waldo Emerson had to say:

Ralph Waldo Emerson, Nature (1836)

"Standing on the bare ground,--my head bathed by the blithe air, and uplifted into infinite space,--all mean egotism vanishes. I become a transparent eye-ball. I am nothing. I see all. The currents of the Universal Being circulate through me; I am part or parcel of God."

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FreeDuck wrote:

Sorry, but with the whole book so heavily laden in symbolism and metaphor, and frankly smacking of a really good mushroom trip, I have a hard time believing that those are actual events.

The word for "witchcraft" in the new testament, the Greek word behind it is:

Pharmakeia (where we get the modern word pharmacy)

Definition
1. the use or the administering of drugs
2. poisoning
3. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
4. metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

Galatians 5:20
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Comment:
By this definition modern medicine would be termed "witchcraft".

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Does that mean John was a witch?

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Dartagnan wrote:

Agreed. I much prefer what Ralph Waldo Emerson had to say:

Ralph Waldo Emerson, Nature (1836)

"Standing on the bare ground,--my head bathed by the blithe air, and uplifted into infinite space,--all mean egotism vanishes. I become a transparent eye-ball. I am nothing. I see all. The currents of the Universal Being circulate through me; I am part or parcel of God."

Very nice. Smile

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FreeDuck wrote:

Does that mean John was a witch?

I am not sure what it means exactly.

That drugs are used in ceremonies of the medical profession.

Initiations into idolatry, fraternities, hypocritic oaths... etc.

Hippocratic Oath (Classical Version)
I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

and so on...

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The human body can produce it's own hallucinogenic chemicals.

The Revelations of John did not have to have been externally induced by drugs. I would think the writing of revelations would not be as articulate if created while "high"...

There is the other option that John was reacting to a naturally spiritual phenomenon.

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I guess I don't really see a distinction between those three things. But that's just me.

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The Book of Revelations, has it already happened?

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