Law Versus Liberty

While it can be recorded quite specifically what is law, the same cannot be said for liberty.
As I see it, law is an attempt to define and preserve liberty. Problem is that the preservation part gets all wrong if the definition isn't right.

0 Replies

If behavior is based upon a law then there cannot be a free will act by definition because every deed is done out of obedience to a specific dictate.

So the only way free will can even exist is if all law is completely abolished but one. The law of liberty.

Law is a boundary, wall, gate, fence...

If you place a boundary then people will go up to that boundary and look out beyond the boundary.

But if you remove the boundary the people then huddle to a center point and look out from there.

Law only encourages transgression of law.

0 Replies

To me it seems that you are using law in a very general way.

Quote:

If behavior is based upon a law then there cannot be a free will act by definition because every deed is done out of obedience to a specific dictate.

Religious people would probably agree that their religious texts are written law. Wouldn't your statement then imply that by adopting religion you are relinquishing free will?

0 Replies

RexRed wrote:

If behavior is based upon a law then there cannot be a free will act by definition because every deed is done out of obedience to a specific dictate.

So the only way free will can even exist is if all law is completely abolished but one. The law of liberty.

Law is a boundary, wall, gate, fence...

If you place a boundary then people will go up to that boundary and look out beyond the boundary.

But if you remove the boundary the people then huddle to a center point and look out from there.

Law only encourages transgression of law.

Rex, one is not obliged to follow the law simply because it is there. However one can choose to follow the law if they will. Thus free will is born. The power to choose. The law provides boundaries for what is considered right and safe by the government. To break the law a person is in essence putting themselves at risk and sometimes others as well. Therefore I say that liberty is found within the law because one has the power to choose whether or not they will follow the boundary of the law.

0 Replies

RexRed wrote:

If behavior is based upon a law then there cannot be a free will act by definition because every deed is done out of obedience to a specific dictate.

So the only way free will can even exist is if all law is completely abolished but one. The law of liberty.

Law is a boundary, wall, gate, fence...

If you place a boundary then people will go up to that boundary and look out beyond the boundary.

But if you remove the boundary the people then huddle to a center point and look out from there.

Law only encourages transgression of law.

How in the world does the Law encourage someone to transgress? We could never understand that argument.

You can only wish that people would huddle to a center point and look out from there. If they break the Law when there is a Law with repercussions, then what do you think that these same people will do if there are no Laws with no repercussions?

0 Replies

Mindonfire wrote:

RexRed wrote:
If behavior is based upon a law then there cannot be a free will act by definition because every deed is done out of obedience to a specific dictate.

So the only way free will can even exist is if all law is completely abolished but one. The law of liberty.

Law is a boundary, wall, gate, fence...

If you place a boundary then people will go up to that boundary and look out beyond the boundary.

But if you remove the boundary the people then huddle to a center point and look out from there.

Law only encourages transgression of law.

How in the world does the Law encourage someone to transgress? We could never understand that argument.

You can only wish that people would huddle to a center point and look out from there. If they break the Law when there is a Law with repercussions, then what do you think that these same people will do if there are no Laws with no repercussions?

I did not say there was no law I said there is only one law.

The law of liberty.

Ga 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage [Law].

Jas 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

0 Replies

I have added the text in hard brackets [ ] into the King James scriptures below for clarity.

hephzibah wrote:

RexRed wrote:
If behavior is based upon a law then there cannot be a free will act by definition because every deed is done out of obedience to a specific dictate.

So the only way free will can even exist is if all law is completely abolished but one. The law of liberty.

Law is a boundary, wall, gate, fence...

If you place a boundary then people will go up to that boundary and look out beyond the boundary.

But if you remove the boundary the people then huddle to a center point and look out from there.

Law only encourages transgression of law.

Rex, one is not obliged to follow the law simply because it is there. However one can choose to follow the law if they will. Thus free will is born. The power to choose. The law provides boundaries for what is considered right and safe by the government. To break the law a person is in essence putting themselves at risk and sometimes others as well. Therefore I say that liberty is found within the law because one has the power to choose whether or not they will follow the boundary of the law.

Hephzibah

You make a very convincing case but I still must beg to differ.

Liberty exists in freedom from all law except for one.

"Love God and treat others as you would like to be treated."

Revelation is direct spiritual guidance from the inside versus "legal" [law] guidance from the outside.

The law is imperfect and divisive but the spirit is perfect and cohesive.

Proverbs 16:25
There is a way [law] that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Comment:
Some choose to live by the "way" of law...

The Bible says this way leads to death.

Why? because the law brings knowledge of sin, judgment and judgment brings damnation.

The Bible says all have "sinned".

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Comment:
If we were DEAD in "sins" what works can a dead man do to please God?

Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh [law] cannot please God.

Comment:
So we are then we are all dammed by the law.

But there are "two" ways one leads to death and the other way leads to life holiness and the righteousness of God.

Isaiah 35:8
And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

Comment:
The "way of sin and death" [law] leads to death the "way of holiness" [the law of liberty] leads to eternal life.

Romans 8:1-9
1 There is therefore now no condemnation [judgment] to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh [Law], but after the Spirit [liberty]. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life [liberty] in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh [law], but after the Spirit [liberty]. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh [sin consciousness]; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit [liberty consciousness]. 6 For to be carnally [legally] minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal [legal] mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law [liberty] of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh [law] cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit [liberty], if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ [liberty], he is none of his.

0 Replies

Law Vs Liberty is revolution. They can never coexist in a perfect balance. That would be Utopia. One will always be at odds with the other.

0 Replies

Amigo wrote:

Law Vs Liberty is revolution. They can never coexist in a perfect balance. That would be Utopia. One will always be at odds with the other.

Is revolution a strong enough word? Smile

Maybe all out war.

It is more like law at war with the law of liberty.

0 Replies

The law is terrorism and death

The law of liberty is peace and eternal life.

0 Replies

Rex? What the hell have you been reading buddy?????

0 Replies

Amigo wrote:

Rex? What the hell have you been reading buddy?????

The Bible... Smile

0 Replies

Can liberty exist without god?

0 Replies

Amigo wrote:

Can liberty exist without god?

God is the inner consciousness of liberty.

Many people are not aware that they are spiritual.

Often it is the seemingly godless people who show liberty and compassion where the religions and pious offer judgment and impose law.

Meekness is part of liberty, and the meek shall inherit the earth.

0 Replies

Yes, that sounds right. That makes sense.

0 Replies

RexRed wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:
RexRed wrote:
If behavior is based upon a law then there cannot be a free will act by definition because every deed is done out of obedience to a specific dictate.

So the only way free will can even exist is if all law is completely abolished but one. The law of liberty.

Law is a boundary, wall, gate, fence...

If you place a boundary then people will go up to that boundary and look out beyond the boundary.

But if you remove the boundary the people then huddle to a center point and look out from there.

Law only encourages transgression of law.

How in the world does the Law encourage someone to transgress? We could never understand that argument.

You can only wish that people would huddle to a center point and look out from there. If they break the Law when there is a Law with repercussions, then what do you think that these same people will do if there are no Laws with no repercussions?

I did not say there was no law I said there is only one law.

The law of liberty.

Ga 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage [Law].

Jas 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

So question, Where does this verse fall in :

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Secondly, in Galations isn't he talking about the bondage of sin?

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Thirdly, do you even know what liberty Paul is speaking of?

Finally, be careful how you remove the verses of the Bible out of their context.

0 Replies

Romans 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear [respect] to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

0 Replies

Re: Law Versus Liberty

RexRed wrote:

What say you?

I say you've been watching to much Bill O'Reilly.

0 Replies

Re: Law Versus Liberty

maporsche wrote:

RexRed wrote:
What say you?

I say you've been watching to much Bill O'Reilly.

Haha Bill only half owns that debate cliche... Smile

0 Replies

Law Versus Liberty

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know