fishin wrote:H2O would be a molecule - not an atom.
Sorry, you're right - my mistake.
Quote:Since you propose that a single molecule would be neither steam, ice or water I'd ask what it would be. It most certianly would be one of them depending on the temperature.
Solids consist of molecules packed tightly together; gases consist of molecules moving around freely; and liquids are somewhere in between. A single molecule cannot be a solid, because it cannot consist of molecules packed tightly together. It is just one molecule on its own. And I don't think it can be a liquid or a gas, for similar reasons.
Buildings and bridges are made of bricks, but a brick on its own is neither a bridge or a building. Solids, liquids and gases are like bridges and buildings, with molecules as their bricks.
A single molecule of H20 is not ice, liquid or steam. Only a collection of H20 molecules could be one of those things.
Quote:Quote:If Ice = H20, then whatever we can say of Ice, we can also say of H20. That is what '=' means - it's not something you can really disagree about.
This is true - AS LONG AS the discussion is limited to what occurs below 32F.
Surely the definition of "=" is the same at all temperatures?
Quote:This idea that ice (or steam or water) must consist of multiple molecules is some garbage rule that you are attempting to make but holds no premise in science or language. If a molecule of H2O exists in solid form it IS ice. That's what the definition of the word Ice is - H2O in it's solid form.
I'm just going by the definition of solid, liquid and gas that I was taught at school. A molecule of H20 cannot
have solid form, because solid form involves multiple molecules packed tightly together. An H20 molecule on its own has no other molecules to be packed together with.
You seem to think that temperature alters the individual molecules of water. But temperature affects the relationships of the molecules to each other. If water is boiled, the molecules move further away from each other. If water is frozen, the molecules move closer together.
What you are saying implies that a single molecule of water could be frozen, or melted, or boiled. This isn't true. Molecules are just molecules.
Quote:H2O = Steam WHEN THE TEMPERATURE IS ABOVE 212F.
H2O = Water WHEN THE TERMERATURE IS BETWEEN 33F AND 211F
H2O = Ice WHEN THE TEMPERATURE IS BELOW 32F
(All at sea level)
I see what you're saying, but I still object to your use of "=".
The temperature is different in different places, at the same time. So in my freezer there is ice, and in my water tank there is liquid water. According to you, at this very moment in time
the ice in my freezer = H20, and
the water in my tank = H20. This still leads to the same problem.
If the ice in my freezer = H20,
and the water in my tank = H20,
then the ice in my freezer = the water in my tank.
But the ice in my freezer is not the water in my tank. To avoid this conclusion, we can reject "Ice in freezer = H20" and "water in tank = H20" by saying that the ice in my freezer and the water in my tank are both made of H20 molecules, but that this does not mean that they equal H20.
As I said earlier, House =/= brick.
Quote:You can object all you'd like - that doesn't change the fact that the Trinity concept doesn't push Christianity into the polytheism realm. The belief is that there is 1 "God" in 3 forms - not that there are 3 seperate deities.
I'm not accusing Christians of polytheism. Polytheism is only one of the possible solutions to the illogicality of believing that God takes three forms at the same time.
Alternatively, you could say that God plays three different roles, like John does. Or you could say there are three entities (not Gods) called the Son, the Father and the Holy Ghost, and the name of this team of entities is God. Or something like that.
