Polytheism within Monotheism

You have[/] heard of the Holy Trinity, right?

Oh, and Mary... Lots of folks pray to Mary....

And the other saints....

But Christianity's monotheistic. Really!

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DrewDad wrote:

You have[/] heard of the Holy Trinity, right?

Oh, and Mary... Lots of folks pray to Mary....

And the other saints....

But Christianity's monotheistic. Really!

I don't see how these would qualify. The concept of a holy trinity is one god in 3 forms - not 3 gods. And people who pray to Mary or other saints don't consider Mary (or the saints) to be god(s). They are asking for them to intercede with god on their behalf.

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i like to think that christian god is all the polythestics gods rolled into one. How can he be vengful in the old testament and compasionate in the new testament? God also controls the weather to teach his ppl leasons like in greek mythology, even though there are more logical reasons now for things like katrina. Also the sacrificing of goats to Dionysus is also used for the hebrew god but not after he was risen again? The point is monotheism seams like every god packed down to one simple package.

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No.

Monotheism is one god. Polytheism is multiple gods.

If you're actually asking if Christianty is monotheistic or polytheistic, then it depends on who you're asking.

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Eorl wrote:

No.

Monotheism is one god. Polytheism is multiple gods.

If you're actually asking if Christianty is monotheistic or polytheistic, then it depends on who you're asking.

True. It does indeed.

One will give you the correct answer, the other will not.

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OK I'll bite.

Who do you think has the definitive answer? The Pope?

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fishin wrote:

The concept of a holy trinity is one god in 3 forms - not 3 gods.

What does that actually mean?

Hoe could one God take three different forms at the same time?

If the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same God, at the same time, then Father = Son = Holy Spirit. Right?

Because Father = God, Son = God, Holy Spirit = God, and God = God = God.

The problem with this is that Christians attribute different characteristics to each 'form' of God. For example, they say that the Son died for our sins, but they wouldn't say that the Father died for our sins. Or they say the Son is God in human form, and the Holy Spirit is not God in human form.

If the Son died for out sins, but the Father did not, then there is a difference between them, so Son =/= Father (does not equal, that is). But Christians claim that Son = God, and Father = God. So saying the Son died for our sins and the Father didn't is like saying God =/= God. Doesn't make sense!

It seems to me that Christians need to commit themselves to either one form of God, or three seperate Gods.

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agrote wrote:

Hoe could one God take three different forms at the same time?

The same way water, ice and steam are all forms of H2O and all 3 exist at the same time.

Quote:

If the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same God, at the same time, then Father = Son = Holy Spirit. Right?

Because Father = God, Son = God, Holy Spirit = God, and God = God = God.

The problem with this is that Christians attribute different characteristics to each 'form' of God. For example, they say that the Son died for our sins, but they wouldn't say that the Father died for our sins. Or they say the Son is God in human form, and the Holy Spirit is not God in human form.

We attribute different characteristics to the different forms of H2O as well. That doesn't seem to cause to many problems.

Quote:

If the Son died for out sins, but the Father did not, then there is a difference between them, so Son =/= Father (does not equal, that is). But Christians claim that Son = God, and Father = God. So saying the Son died for our sins and the Father didn't is like saying God =/= God. Doesn't make sense!

We say ice melts but we don't say water or steam melts. Water evaporates but ice and steam do not. Steam condenses but water and ice do not. Water =/= ice =/= steam but all 3 still = H2O.

Quote:

It seems to me that Christians need to commit themselves to either one form of God, or three seperate Gods.

I don't think that is necessary. You may not agree with or understand the trinity concept but it (apparently) works for those who do.

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fishin wrote:

agrote wrote:
We say ice melts but we don't say water or steam melts. Water evaporates but ice and steam do not. Steam condenses but water and ice do not. Water =/= ice =/= steam but all 3 still = H2O.

Although i agree with the intent of your post, i would like to point out that ice does indeed evaporate, as anyone who has taken an ice tray out of the freezer, which tray was long in the freezer without being used, can plainly see. Steam, of course, is a name for the condensing water which had been evaporated by heat. Evaporation is a term which describes the change of form of water from either a solid or a liquid to a gaseous state.

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Setanta wrote:

Although i agree with the intent of your post, i would like to point out that ice does indeed evaporate, as anyone who has taken an ice tray out of the freezer, which tray was long in the freezer without being used, can plainly see. Steam, of course, is a name for the condensing water which had been evaporated by heat. Evaporation is a term which describes the change of form of water from either a solid or a liquid to a gaseous state.

Yeah, I agree with you. I didn't want to get to far into details and stuck with common language usage.

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Mindy's thread on the virtues of the suggested polytheistic identity of God is more interesting . . .
http://able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2273790#2273790

. . . if, perhaps only by virtue of his/their arcane personality/ies.

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Setanta wrote:

fishin wrote:
agrote wrote:
We say ice melts but we don't say water or steam melts. Water evaporates but ice and steam do not. Steam condenses but water and ice do not. Water =/= ice =/= steam but all 3 still = H2O.

Although i agree with the intent of your post, i would like to point out that ice does indeed evaporate, as anyone who has taken an ice tray out of the freezer, which tray was long in the freezer without being used, can plainly see. Steam, of course, is a name for the condensing water which had been evaporated by heat. Evaporation is a term which describes the change of form of water from either a solid or a liquid to a gaseous state.

I think you're sublimating your desire for an argument into pedanticalness.

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Nor is there "a water." Multiple H2O molecules join to form "water," "ice," and "steam."

Your analogy defeats itself.

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The word you wanted was pedantry.

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Setanta wrote:

The word you wanted was pedantry.

pedanticalness, noun [/quote]

...but thanks for proving my point.

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DrewDad wrote:

Nor is there "a water." Multiple H2O molecules join to form "water," "ice," and "steam."

Your analogy defeats itself.

While "a water" would be cumbersome, "a molecule of water" isn't. Water can and does exist as a single molecule.

As far as I know none of the religions out there have made statements as to whether their imaginary friend(s) exist at the atomic or molecular level.

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Water, ice and steam are different states and it is heat and pressure that separates them. Ice can turn to vapor like snow under the sun's ray. It is called transpiration. At very high pressure and temperature you get super-heated syeam and beyond that it is a nebulous region.

The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost separated by interpretation.

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fishin wrote:

Water =/= ice =/= steam but all 3 still = H2O.

That is not true. All three =/= H20. All three are made up of H20 molecules, but they do not equal H20. Is Jesus made of God molecules?

Identity is a transitive relation. If A = B, and B = C, then A = C. A must equal C. If it didn't, then either A doesn't equal B or B doesn't equal C. Let's make A = Ice, B = H20, and C = Water vapour...

If Ice = H20, and Water vapour = H20, then Ice must equal Water vapour. But as you rightly pointed out, it doesn't. So we must either reject Ice = H20 or Water vapour = H20. We can actually reject both, because both are made up of H20 molecules, but neither equals H20. Saying "Ice = H20" is like saying "house = brick". Houses are made of brick, but brick is not made of houses, so clearly house =/= brick. H20 is not made of Ice, so Ice =/= H20.

So your analogy fails. H20 is not equal to three different things.

But I think that you believe that God is equal to each member of the holy trinity. This is a problem, because the members of the holy trinity are different to each other.

You could say that God is a substance, of which each member of the Holy Trinity is made. So Jesus is made of God, and the Father is made of God, and the HS is made of God. And in that sense, they all are God. The only problem with that is that the Son and the Father would really be two different things, just as a glacier and a river are two different things.

Alternatively, you could reject the idea of God taking forms, and believe that God has three parts instead. I can't see any immediate problems with that.

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technically it is called theocrasy.

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Polytheism within Monotheism

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