Who gets to go to heaven?

Intrepid wrote:

hephzibah wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

We also have to consider that the 144,000 could be a symbolic number.

Symbolic of what intrepid?

Symbolic of the fact that only the Lord knows the true number that will comprise the mulitude.

Are we to believe that He wants all the world to be saved, but we are to take the 144,00 as a literal number?

Something like when Setanta starts to call people names like clown etc. It is probably symbolic of the fact that he cannot refute what is being said in a coherent and cohesive manner. A compliment really.

Whoa! What would be so bad about living on earth? Aren't those folks also saved?

hephzibah wrote:

Think about this though intrepid... it states the 144,000, how many from each tribe, and then it says the a multitude that can't be numbered from every tribe, tongue, and nation. So if those people in that multitude are not "saved" what are they doing at God's throne?

I am not sure if I understand what you are saying. I think you are saying the same as I am. Correct me if I am wrong.... It is more than the 144,00 number that will counted among those who abide with God in heaven.

hephzibah wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

We also have to consider that the 144,000 could be a symbolic number.

Symbolic of what intrepid?

Symbolic of the fact that only the Lord knows the true number that will comprise the mulitude.

Are we to believe that He wants all the world to be saved, but we are to take the 144,00 as a literal number?

Something like when Setanta starts to call people names like clown etc. It is probably symbolic of the fact that he cannot refute what is being said in a coherent and cohesive manner. A compliment really.

Intrepids words are so contradictory and self serving, they refute themselves.

Intrepid wrote:

hephzibah wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

We also have to consider that the 144,000 could be a symbolic number.

Symbolic of what intrepid?

Symbolic of the fact that only the Lord knows the true number that will comprise the mulitude.

Are we to believe that He wants all the world to be saved, but we are to take the 144,00 as a literal number?

Something like when Setanta starts to call people names like clown etc. It is probably symbolic of the fact that he cannot refute what is being said in a coherent and cohesive manner. A compliment really.

You can believe that you have something which i cannot refute if you wish, but that is not the fact. I was pointing out that you are made ridiculous by claiming that those who do not share your supersition are closed-minded. Those of us who are raised in "christian" societies have rejected christianity becuase we have open minds, and having examined the horsie poop being peddled, have refused to continue to believe or even to pay lip service.

You, on the other hand, want to make claims such as that the 144,000 figure is symbolic, becuase you are so wedded to the inerrancy of the scripture you worship as surely as you worship your imaginary friend, that you will go through all manner of ludicrous mental gymnastics to continue to assert that said scripture does not chronically contradict itself either directly or inferentially. People thousands of years ago must have thought that 144,000 is a big number--but now it is a ridiculously small number of people to assert would be "saved" by your imaginary friend. So you come up with silly statements such as your symbolism dodge, rather that have an open mind, and admit that your vaunted scripture may be flawed. You completely have failed to address my original criticism of a comic book god who would create being with a free will, and then condemn them for the choices they make in exercising that will. Your mind is closed to any possibility that your creed may be flawed or contradictory.


Clown . . .

neologist wrote:

hephzibah wrote:

Hmmm... interesting point neo. So what's the point of the "rapture" then? Do you believe in the rapture?

The fact that the word does not appear in the bible should give us one clue. . .

Or how about Solomon's words at Proverbs 2:21, 22: . . . "For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. 22 As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it."

I'm not too sure about that neo. That proverb is speaking about the value of wisdom.

10 When wisdom enters your heart,
And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 Discretion will preserve you;
Understanding will keep you,
12 To deliver you from the way of evil,
From the man who speaks perverse things,
13 From those who leave the paths of uprightness
To walk in the ways of darkness;
14 Who rejoice in doing evil,
And delight in the perversity of the wicked;
15 Whose ways are crooked,
And who are devious in their paths;
16 To deliver you from the immoral woman,
From the seductress who flatters with her words,
17 Who forsakes the companion of her youth,
And forgets the covenant of her God.
18 For her house leads down to death,
And her paths to the dead;
19 None who go to her return,
Nor do they regain the paths of life?-
20 So you may walk in the way of goodness,
And keep to the paths of righteousness.

So I tend to think that maybe that use is not what those verses were intended for. It is, according to this, wisdom and knowledge that will bring discretion and understanding that will preserve, keep, and deliver those who seek after it.