grass' revelation sems to have stirred up a lot of discussion in germany .
just read some of the entries in the "spiegel' comments section .
some readers are indeed very disturbed that grass apparently did not simply state the truth about his war service much earlier - people would have understood .
the impression i get from readers' comments is that he never made any mention of his service in the waffen-SS until now .
indeed i have seen a number of entries that state he was assigned to the anti-aircraft auxiliary - which was quite a common assignment for highschool-students .
i asssume that he must (?) have known of that , but made no attempt until now to correct that .
i notice that walter states that he and his fellow-students were aware of grass having been drafted into the waffen-SS during the 1960's , while reading 'the tin drum' - if i read walter's comments correctly ?
perhaps i'm reading too much into it - but somehow i get the impression that grass is reticent to simply admit that he should have stated his war service in simple terms much earlier .
he seems to be surprised at himself (and angry at others ?) for this to come out now .
perhaps walter will enlighten us ?
hbg
hamburger wrote:he seems to be surprised at himself (and angry at others ?) for this to come out now .
perhaps walter will enlighten us ?
hbg
I've had a discussion with Mrs. Walter and some fellow A2K'ers who are visiting us about this as well:
I'm quite sure that we heard about his engagement in the SS at school - not all of our teachers were his fans (actually just very few).
And we here agree that he could have mentioned that before ... if there had been questions about it.
But: the 'Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung', who reported/published the story last week first, ... quoted only from Grass' new book, where such and more is mentioned.
(2nd print within a couple of days sold out)
walter : thanks for your response !
there is a rather interesting article in time magazine dealing with gunter grass (and his predicament) .
from the article :
"If Grass had not been living with this wretched little skeleton in his closet, he might never have written a word. Like 99% of his compatriots, he might have just dusted himself off at war's end, said his 20 Hail Marys, and gone about joining the blithely ahistorical postwar boom. Instead, a haunted Grass cranked out a series of brutal novels about the war and childhood in occupied Poland, beginning with his powerful 1959 novel The Tin Drum. Those unforgettable narratives, along with a good measure of his public hectoring and politicking, helped his entire country stave off collective amnesia for decades. So while his opponents, and even a share of his friends, are piling on him about the lies he told about his past, it's worth considering that those personal lies helped keep alive important national truths."
not sure that i fully agree , but certainly an interesting point of view .
i certainly think the article is worthwhile reading .
i think most north-americans would actually have a hard time understanding what all the furor is about .
hbg (wondering what skeletons i have in the closet - i better not check)
...TIME MAGAZINE - GUNTER GRASS...
I can understand it easily, in that there (I conjecture) was never quite a right time to bring it up, except in hindsight immediately. Right away would have been good, but as a young man, I can see not doing that. And then as time passed with his not having brought it up, I can see the burden of it growing. Sure he should have been straightforward.... we say now, all of us who have benefitted from an increase in therapy groups, etc.
Plus, it's not clear to me that he lied, more a matter of not explaining.
Yes, it takes a bit of moral power out of his image. It also might put it right back in, as he didn't have to do this admitting now. I don't think book sales are his motive.
No stones from me.
ossobucco wrote :
"No stones from me. "
certainly not from me
btw picked up his book "my century" at the library ... but having a tough time with it
luckily also picked up : guy talese - the life of a writer ... i think i'll read guy talese first , perhaps it'll make me understand gunter grass
hbg
I have remembered, during the development of this thread, what happened with my copy of the Tin Drum... I tried to read it and stopped, gave it to a thrift shop. Don't remember why I found the going tough in comparison to some other books I've slogged through despite whatever difficulty.. might not have been so much content as writing style.
dlowan wrote:Setanta wrote:It is also interesting that the document Walter provided shows him entering the Waffen SS in November, 1944, and describes him as a "student," which suggests to me that he was a trainee. You have a seventeen-year-old boy who enters the armed forces and goes into training in what are for his nation desparate times. Actually, given the situation in November, 1944, joining the Waffen SS was probably a rather smart move. He had a better shot at getting decent equipment, and what would have passed for decent rations in those dark days.
By the spring of 1945, thirteen- and fourteen-year-old boys were being put in field gray coats, given a coal scuttle helmet and a panzerfaust, and told to go out and find and kill an American tank. Should we hunt all of those horrible "Nazis" down? My mother served with a field hospital in Normandy. They got a lot of casualties from the 12th SS Panzergrenadier Division--the Hitler Jungen Division. Boys, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years of age . . . yeah, those were the worst of the Nazis, the little perishers. German officers taught her German lullabys phonetically, so she could sing them to sleep--they were badly wounded and terrified.
Actually, he says he was called up, and discovered it was for the Waffen SS....then that he feigned illness to try to avoid it.
Seems there's conflict here, because elsewhere he claims he volunteered
Miller wrote:Seems there's conflict here, because elsewhere he claims he volunteered
He volunteered indeed when he was 15, in an effort to get into the submarine force which he greatly admired. His letter remained unanswered though, and he wasn't called up until more than a year later.
When he finally got drafted, he noticed that it wasn't for service on a submarine. Instead he was sent to Dresden, and only there discovered that he had been drafted for service in the Waffen-SS.
In spite of what dlowan said, it seems that he didn't try to completely avoid service in the Waffen-SS, but rather feigned illness (or actually got himself an infection) in an effort to take a couple of weeks leave from the troops.
(Miller, if you are really interested in the topic, there's enough material in this thread alone which you could have read before posting.)
I suppose, if some had read "Beim Häuten der Zwiebel" (or at least the exerpts in the 'Frankfurter Allgemeine') already, she/he could answer most speculations here.
Since the FAZ isn't my paper and I'm no fan of biographies ... :wink:
Heh, Walter, what's that supposed to mean? Is that your sorry excuse for being too lazy, getting a copy and reading the whole thing?
Okay, here's my sorry excuse: I'm not going to fall for that pathetic kind of marketing ploy!
There!
Now, if somebody wants to get me a
free copy, just PM me, and I'll provide a mailing address....
old europe wrote:Heh, Walter, what's that supposed to mean? Is that your sorry excuse for being too lazy, getting a copy and reading the whole thing?
I read nearly everything by Grass via a "Literaturgeschichte"
i've openend AND closed guenter grass' "my century" several times over the weekend ...
instead i've now started reading "the stuart age - a history of england 1603-1714" . it's much more to my taste ; actually some rather funny stuff about lawyers and preachers in the book - a little easier for my old brain
.
hbg
Obviously Grass' memory was weaker than he confessed himself:
documents from his hospital stay [he allowed them to be published after the data protection office at first blocked that] show that he had joined the "Panzerjäger-Ausbildungs- und Ersatzabteilung 3" (which was as known until today no SS-unit) as a "Schütze" (and not a "SS-Mann") and on November 10, 1944 (and not earlier as he remembered in his book).
More (until now only in German) at
spiegel-online.
Don't Be Stupid, Be a Smarty
Come and join the Nazi party.
by P.J. O'Rourke
09/25/2006, Volume 012, Issue 02
LEFT-WING LOUDMOUTH and strident anti-American Günter Grass has admitted that he was a member of the Waffen SS. This came as a shock to the socialist admirers of the German novelist, who had no idea just how National Grass's Socialism was. The New York Times sighed at the revelation: "For many on the left since the 1960s he has come to represent the conscience of a country with much to lament." One more thing now being Günter himself.
Never mind that we knew it already. In an interview in 2000 he'd told that same newspaper, "I belonged to the Hitler Youth, and I believed in its aims up to the end of the war."
Anyway, the Nazism of Günter Grass is out in the open. Given this, perhaps his most strident and mouthy public pronouncements should be reas sessed. For example, in 1990, Grass opposed German reunification, characterizing West Germany's treatment of East Germany as "colonization." Of course he was angry. Colonization is for the Ukraine. What was needed in East Germany was Anschluss.
Herewith some statements by Günter Grass. What Herr Grass left unsaid has been added in italics.
On the 9/11 attacks (quoted in National Review, 12/31/01)
. . . aimed at expressing an explosion of hatred towards the rich north of the world, towards a world rich, cold, and indifferent to the problems of the poor part of the globe. The same way we had V-2s aimed at London.
On bombing civilian targets
(from an interview in the New York Times, 4/8/03)
We started the first air raids of this kind, killing a city, with Guernica in the Spanish Civil War. Rotterdam, Coventry, Liverpool and London followed. Then it was done to us. What we started came back to us. But both are war crimes. If you don't win the war.
On the Bible
(from an interview in the Paris Review, Summer 1991)
The Bible teaches a bad lesson when it says that man, rather than Ger-man, has dominion over the fish, the fowl, the cattle, and every creeping thing. We have tried to conquer the earth, with poor results. But there's always next time.
On skinhead violence in Germany
(from an interview in the New York Times, 12/29/92)
In many ways it is an expression of their own self-hate, which was bound to happen with reunification. It is expensive. It is unsettling. And so the weakest of East and West Germany got thrown to the bottom, and they are fighting to be above somebody or really anybody. And who is beneath them? The foreigners. Preferably the Poles.
"Nursery Rhyme"
(from a collection of Grass's poems, 1960)
Who speaks here or keeps mum?
Here we denounce the dumb.
To speak here is to hide
Deep reasons kept inside.
Eva Braun, be my bride.
On capitalism, Part I
(from a statement at the PEN International Congress, 1/16/86)
Is capitalism better than gulag communism? I don't think so. Capitalism doesn't have enough gulags.
On capitalism, Part II
(from a 1990 statement on the occasion of German reunification)
Capitalism has never been more barbaric, beast-like than after the victory over the communist system. I was really impressed. I almost joined Rotary. It reminded me of 1941. If the Russian winter hadn't forced us back into our wolf-dens, we would have torn every man, woman, and child in Moscow limb from limb.
On George W. Bush
(from an interview in the New York Times, 4/8/03)
In language he is close to Osama bin Laden. Both are always speaking about God. Both are sure that God is on their side. Well, Odin isn't! This has been amply demonstrated in pagan ceremonies handsomely staged for the Volk.
On American foreign policy
(from a 1980 letter signed by Grass and other German writers, urging the West German government not to allow its foreign policy to be led by . . . )
an American Government that since Vietnam has lost all right to moralize, into a policy that could lead to the destruction of all life on this planet. Because the Americans might not have the guts to go through with it.
On America
(quoted in the New Republic, 8/12/85)
. . . a country that was founded on the stolen land and genocide of Indians. Who weren't even Jewish!
On being a liar
(from an interview in the Paris Review, Summer 1991)
As a child I was a great liar. Fortunately my mother liked my lies. To which nothing more need be added.
Thanks for that update.
I could add a couple more quotations from my school books - if I re-find them.
Oh, and since Finn forgot that: the online source for above quottation is
The Weekly Standard - Sep 15, 2006
A review of Grass' book at
The Telegraph (UK)
"Many layers but no heart
(Filed: 24/09/2006)
Daniel Johnson reviews Beim Häuten der Zwiebel (Peeling the Onion) by Günter Grass."