Being a Christian and Smoking

I don't consider myself a christian, however I do hold a few of the "christian" beliefs, mainly God. So I think that's pretty much what you are getting after here is more following a belief system and doing something that could be considered harming our body.

I won't try to justify it because really it can't be. The only time I've even felt bad about it was when someone was very condescending with me about it. The fact is I have tried to quit at least 100 times and finally got tired of failing and gave up. Though I suppose if we are going to pull out a scripture such as this and point the finger with it... well... we ought to mention gluttony, piercings, tatoo's and things of the likes as well. It just doesn't seem right to just single out one aspect of "destroying the temple".

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There isnt much to say on this subject, drinking can be debated b/c christ did it yet warned against drunkenness, but this is pretty basic. Smoking is destroying the temple. There isnt really anything you can say to debate that.

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The meaning of the word christian must have changed a lot since the last time I paid attention.

Here, I am more talking about what in the U.S. is the growing # of followers of various what I term in my mind as "non-demoninational" churches.

However, religion such as Roman and Greek Catholocism, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. are every bit as christian as the Church of JC and whatever whatever.

I truly wasn't intending this to be a discussion of various faiths or quoting anything from some book or reciting scripture.

I guess I do need to give an example....Be warned this story is going to be about some people who are hypocrites....but you know what, I'm starting to find hypocracy more and more funny...

Anyway....starting from the viewpoint of let's say more than a year ago, with no knowledge of certain people....

There is, like anywhere else, a hard core group of people that work in the same office building as I do (there's probably 30 or so business here) that just can't wait for their breaks to have a smoke. I like to observe people, and I have big windows. Mostly, they are people who are, well, kinda trashy and slovenly looking....not quite clean if you know what I mean. From passing by them, I can tell you their personalities basically suck too. Lot's of whining, lots of mean gossip. Most have bellies and no muscle tone, so as far as I'm concerned, they are physical and mental pigs.

There's one in particular that I actually had to have words with once in the ladies, as apparantly no one had ever taught her to flush the commode after taking a dump, or washing her hands, so everyone else could pick up her stinky germs....on the side, after taking a dump and not washing hands, she would go outside, light up, putting her hands all over her face.....

A month ago, while I was in a stall, I heard 3 women come in talking about someone who was a "f-ing a-hole, f-ing this, f-ing that....all three of them....then in the same breath I hear them talking about their church and some special event and making sure that got to the service and on and on....of course you know who they were.....

Now of course they are hypocrites....but there's just something even worse how on top of that they smoke like chimmneys....

When I drank, I had the sense to not show up at my maiden aunts house, or someone who would see I was plastered and think the worst of me.

Maybe I'm weird...but I just can't picture anyone standing outside the church before or after service, or at some function, and smoking something all vile and harmful like that....it just seems to go against everything they're doing....

Even someone who's a truly good person....it just seems so....I don't know, WRONG....worse than many other things they could be doing, that would get a raised eyebrow.

Hep, I'm honestly curious, every time you light a cigarette, do you feel you are offending God? I smoked on and off, and I did. I mean, you've got life and all these good things, and you blow it back in a stream of stink.

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That story was all over the place and im pretty lost on what the point is.

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EpiNirvana wrote:

That story was all over the place and im pretty lost on what the point is.

good thing I wasn't trying to impress you then.

if ya can't keep up, stay under the porch.

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Smoking, as disgusting as it is, is not a sin. I used to smoke, but I did not smoke in the vicinity of my church. This was not out of hypocrisy, but rather out of respect for the institution, the people and my Heavenly Father. Then again, I do not spit on church property either... hmm, can't use that because I make it a habit not to spit anywhere.

We have church members who smoke. Some I have never seen in the act, but I can smell it on them. You see, I quit smoking 9 years ago (cold turkey) and I find that my sense of cigarette smell has increased and I find it revolting. I didn't quit because of the church, I quit for my health and that of my grandchildren.

Your last post covered much more than smoking and I am not sure why. However, I find the bad language part, that you describe, by so called Christians rather deplorable. The sanitary parts have absolutely nothing to do with whether one is religious or not. That is just plain human cleanliness. And, no, cleanliness is not next to Godliness.

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The reason I listed the other undesirable traits was so that the issue wouldn't come up that both the hypocrites and not hypocrites smoke. The two groups in that respect are in the same boat as far as I can see. I guess it didn't come across very well.....

I disagree with you heartily Intrepid....Cleanliness IS next to Godliness.

I'm not talking about (a) someone who's worked up a good honest sweat working, or (b) someone who literally cannot afford or does not have access to a means to get clean.

Other than those 2 groups (I'm sure there's other situations, such as illness) I cannot imagine a reason why someone, believer or otherwise would either disrespect God by not keeping themselves clean or disrespect themselves by not keeping themselves clean.

As I'm typing this, it becomes clear that it is a matter of respect..you would appear dirty and smelly in front of God, why would you appear smoking and destroying what he made?

It simply seems like such a slap in the face to him.

For myself, I do believe smoking in a sin, or wrong, or whatever word you would want to use, in that it directly shows that disrespect for the life you've been given.

To me, it's no different than if you gave someone a clean gown, and you purposefully let something soil or stain it. Fortunately you can remove a clean gown if you know you're going to be doing something that would destroy it....We are stuck wearing our bodies at all times, so we need to be extra careful of how we wear it.

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Chai,
We seem to be in agreement except perhaps on the "Cleanliness is next to Godliness". I have heard that phrase since I was a little boy and thought that I knew what it meant. Being clean puts you closer to God.

The reason that I now say what I did about it is because being closer to God has nothing to do with cleanliness. After all...He loves everybody, sinners included.

Cleanliness of spirt is one thing and natural cleanliness is another. We we talk of cleanliness of spirit then I agree that it is next to Godliness. If we speak of natural cleanliness, it has nothing to do with God. Again, using the respect thing, nobody would want to enter God's house unclean. However, He would not refuse them. The members might, but God wouldn't.

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As i always said, see when u are in the old peoples home talking crap and wearing nappies, then i will be well dead, drink, smoke and be merry life is too short, and once you are dead, you are dead, why prolong it?....

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Hmmm, I'll think while I type, my usual mode, which tends to confuse or clarify, but amuses me.

I started out life as a practicing Catholic, and started smoking at nineteen, had my first drink at 21. I have to say it never occurred to me I might be sinning with either of those. For one thing, when I was 19, it was 1961 and a large part of the population smoked. Also around then, movies were full of cool folks who smoked...

To top it off, I have close to no sense of smell at all. I try hard to not be a walking odor package, in a sort of learned from reading way, with trust that my closest pals will clue me in if I've failed in this. I've probably done my laundry more often than most out of some odor fear, thus endangering the environment.

As life has gone on, I've walked away from belief, but still have morals, thank you. I don't know, I don't think that I think of drinking and smoking too much is immoral. I think it is a waste of the joy of health at its extreme.

Recent data shows that for older people, 1 or two drinks a day actually is healthier than more than that or less than that. On cigarettes, I've known some people who can enjoy just a few a month. I sure don't think of them as immoral. Actually, I don't think of people who derive comfort from smoking as immoral in any case. Dumbass and sometimes trapped in it, but not immoral.

On cleanliness, I've given my opinions on a2k many times. I think it's over-rated as a virtue - my opinion as a bacteriology major, and my opinion as an artist sometime later. Indeed, exposure to various bacteria, et al, early on, can be a good thing. I am more freaked by the new onslaught of germdestroying everything, including sponges, in the grocery store, think they are arguably dangerous.... and potentially have moral implications in the distribution if that is true.

However... I became a bacteriology major because of a scene in Arrowsmith by Sinclair Lewis, which I happened to be reading as I was choosing a major... one of the protagonists smoked a cigarette in the lab that had been tainted with, I forget what.... the yellow fever rickettsia? That made me sign up for Bacti 1A and the rest was history.

I suppose this leads into morals/ethics/sin as a discussion.
Have fun, folks.

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BDV wrote:

As i always said, see when u are in the old peoples home talking crap and wearing nappies, then i will be well dead, drink, smoke and be merry life is too short, and once you are dead, you are dead, why prolong it?....

I think I'll just stick to the merry part. I don't need to drink and smoke to do that.

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Chai Tea wrote:

The meaning of the word christian must have changed a lot since the last time I paid attention.

Here, I am more talking about what in the U.S. is the growing # of followers of various what I term in my mind as "non-demoninational" churches.

However, religion such as Roman and Greek Catholocism, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. are every bit as christian as the Church of JC and whatever whatever.

I truly wasn't intending this to be a discussion of various faiths or quoting anything from some book or reciting scripture.

I guess I do need to give an example....Be warned this story is going to be about some people who are hypocrites....but you know what, I'm starting to find hypocracy more and more funny...

Anyway....starting from the viewpoint of let's say more than a year ago, with no knowledge of certain people....

There is, like anywhere else, a hard core group of people that work in the same office building as I do (there's probably 30 or so business here) that just can't wait for their breaks to have a smoke. I like to observe people, and I have big windows. Mostly, they are people who are, well, kinda trashy and slovenly looking....not quite clean if you know what I mean. From passing by them, I can tell you their personalities basically suck too. Lot's of whining, lots of mean gossip. Most have bellies and no muscle tone, so as far as I'm concerned, they are physical and mental pigs.

There's one in particular that I actually had to have words with once in the ladies, as apparantly no one had ever taught her to flush the commode after taking a dump, or washing her hands, so everyone else could pick up her stinky germs....on the side, after taking a dump and not washing hands, she would go outside, light up, putting her hands all over her face.....

A month ago, while I was in a stall, I heard 3 women come in talking about someone who was a "f-ing a-hole, f-ing this, f-ing that....all three of them....then in the same breath I hear them talking about their church and some special event and making sure that got to the service and on and on....of course you know who they were.....

Now of course they are hypocrites....but there's just something even worse how on top of that they smoke like chimmneys....

When I drank, I had the sense to not show up at my maiden aunts house, or someone who would see I was plastered and think the worst of me.

Maybe I'm weird...but I just can't picture anyone standing outside the church before or after service, or at some function, and smoking something all vile and harmful like that....it just seems to go against everything they're doing....

Even someone who's a truly good person....it just seems so....I don't know, WRONG....worse than many other things they could be doing, that would get a raised eyebrow.

Hep, I'm honestly curious, every time you light a cigarette, do you feel you are offending God? I smoked on and off, and I did. I mean, you've got life and all these good things, and you blow it back in a stream of stink.

Honestly Chai no I don't feel I am offending God. I don't feel it changes His feelings towards me one bit. I truly believe His love is unconditional. It is so hard for us to conceive of unconditional anything though because there are seemingly so many conditions in life. I believe God looks at our life, at our person, from the inside out. If I could share my heart here though I would tell you this:

I have spent many many tears on this very subject. I have gone through much frustration and aggravation about this very issue because at times I want to quit so bad and yet feel so completely powerless to do so. I have tried and tried and only succeeded once 10 years ago to quit for two months. I don't disagree with you one bit on it being absolutely disgusting. It is. I walk around feeling like when I walk into a room people smell me before they see me. It's a horrible feeling.

There were many years because of how christians treated me that I felt unacceptable to God because of this. When I began to understand unconditional love though, I began to realize that God see's all this. Every struggle my heart has ever gone through. How much I would like to be free sometimes from this thing that has me being torn in two separate directions. (totally repulsed on one hand, and yet I LIKE it on the other hand) If God's love is truly unconditional then to me that means it is completely unmerited, undeserved, unearned, just about any "un" you can come up with.

I still hold a small hope way deep down inside of me that someday I will have the courage and the strength to turn and walk away. When I'm ready. I'm not ready right now. I'm still in the midst of a failed marriage. I don't feel the least bit courageous or strong at the moment. And yeah... maybe that just sounds like an excuse to some, but I honestly don't think I could handle any more failure in my life at the moment.

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Smoking is not a sin, but hephzibah's post reminds me that the greatest sin can be forgiven and the smallest sin must be forgiven.

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On the road to quitting, this was one of the whips I used to beat myself with, the 'body is a temple' whip. I also began to believe that smoking was an ungrateful act towards God and every time I lit up, about 30 times a day, the guilt was there. That guilt, along with the stupidity, IMO, of smoking in general and the wishes of my mother that I quit, all of these things gave me the strength to actually go cold turkey almost five years ago.

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Intrepid wrote:

Smoking is not a sin, but hephzibah's post reminds me that the greatest sin can be forgiven and the smallest sin must be forgiven.

It disobeys at least 2 of Gods commandments....

Thou shalt not kill.....self explanatory

Thou shalt not worship false gods....if in the effort to be the best to can be to honor your creator, you are tempted by a substance that kills you, you are putting the god of addiction before him.

Intripid....I'm not going to get into a discuss re the difference between spiritual cleanliness and physical....if I do, we will wander away from the subject and this will become another adventure into scripture.

In the same vein....talking about forgiveness...Your talking about people forgiving I assume. I'm not discussing that, and for the same reason.

osso....I'm not talking about the few that can have the occassional cigarette...although why they would do that is beyond me.

Also, I'm not discussing the trend toward anti-bacterial everything. I'm talking about taking a bath every day and changing your underwear. That is certainly not extreme.

Each time I bathe, I feel I'm cleaning Gods creation...just as when I cook, I feel I am honoring the fact that God gave us so many good things to eat to keep our bodies healthy. When I exercise moderately, I feel it's wonderful I've been given a body that works at least somewhat properly and I can keep it healthy to live and learn more.

To dishonor yourself by killing a part of yourself and putting your craving before the craving to do the right thing is indeed a sin.

Everytime you smoke....you literally kill part of yourself...there is no getting around that.

Can anyone deny that is you smoke and get cancer as a direct result, and die because of it, that you have killed yourself?

Actually, I have to rename this whole thing, not just to apply to christians....

I come from a more paganistic viewpoint I suppose.

Aren't there some religions that forbid smoking? Why would they if it wasn't some going against God?

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The Mormons eschew caffiene, smoking, and almost evrything else. Cool

I had the same "convictions" as Chai mentions about the "temple," though I didn't follow them. It seemed pretty clear, though.

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Chai Tea wrote:

I'm talking about taking a bath every day and changing your underwear. That is certainly not extreme.

So am I understanding you right then that your point is that smokers are generally dirty? Don't you think that's a rather wide judgemental statement on your part Chai? Don't you all get so aggravated at christians when they lump atheists together with agnostics, and just make blankets statements regarding a certian "sect" of people? Do you really believe that because I smoke I don't change my underwear every day? Or shower every day? Wow... I'm really at a loss with this one Chai...

Quote:

Each time I bathe, I feel I'm cleaning Gods creation...just as when I cook, I feel I am honoring the fact that God gave us so many good things to eat to keep our bodies healthy. When I exercise moderately, I feel it's wonderful I've been given a body that works at least somewhat properly and I can keep it healthy to live and learn more.

It is good that doing those things give you a "good feeling" Chai, however it doesn't all boil down to "feelings" What's that saying... "Good intentions pave the way to hell"? You can say what you want, be as judgemental as you want concerning the things that offend you, but standing in such a position makes you just as big a hypocrite as the very people you condemn. God is more concerned with the condition of a person's heart than he ever will be with how many times they bathed in their lifetime. How many good meals they cooked. How much they exercised.

While those things are all well and good you completely nullify all the "good" things you do by taking it an using it to promote your own self-righteousness. You, I, or anyone else on the planet are not in the place of judging anyone based purely on what we see, or what they do that offends us because we cannot see their heart or the things they went through that got them to the place they are in. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a hypocrite in some peoples eyes because I smoke. I'll be the first to admit that I'm killing myself. Maybe even quicker than those that eat McDonalds, lay out in the sun to get that "beach babe" look going on, dye their hair, use anti-perspirant, and so forth.

The point is that is my choice as well as the choice of everyone who does all those things and many other things that cause cancer. That is between me and God and those people and God. I will not stand before you on judgement day when it's all said and done. I will stand before my Creator. The beauty of it is, I won't even have to say a word, because He'll already know. I'll either stand or fall. But He will be the judge of that. Not you. Therefore I will not stand before you now or again concerning this.

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hephzibah wrote:

It is good that doing those things give you a "good feeling" Chai, however it doesn't all boil down to "feelings" What's that saying... "Good intentions pave the way to hell"? You can say what you want, be as judgemental as you want concerning the things that offend you, but standing in such a position makes you just as big a hypocrite as the very people you condemn. God is more concerned with the condition of a person's heart than he ever will be with how many times they bathed in their lifetime. How many good meals they cooked. How much they exercised.

Amen.

And the saying goes: The road to hell is lined with good intentions.

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Exactly, as long as you are merry and harming no one else then i don't see a problem with smoking, drink, or drugs.

Chai Tea wrote:

BDV wrote:
As i always said, see when u are in the old peoples home talking crap and wearing nappies, then i will be well dead, drink, smoke and be merry life is too short, and once you are dead, you are dead, why prolong it?....

I think I'll just stick to the merry part. I don't need to drink and smoke to do that.

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Being a Christian and Smoking

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