Was Mother Theresa a good person or a fraud ?

Id have to agree with Phoenix. She did some good in her own eyes and in the eyes of the church, but nothing that could really change the world. Think how much better Africa might be doning now if she did advocate some birth control.

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Quote:

I understand what you are saying. But she had the clout, and the confidence of the people, to get to the root of the problem. She chose not to, in the service of her faith. To me, that was not very "holy" behavior".

Sometimes one needs to consider the greater good.

I think that there is another possibilty not quite considered. Perhaps she thought she was doing the greater good. Perhaps she really BELIEVED that birth control was sinful and wrong. She probably thought she was really saving people and doing the greater good by not advocating birth control.

She probably was sticking to what she believed in in spite of the criticism that she was wrong.

I agree with you that birth control really is needed and would probably serve the "greater" good in terms of easing suffering and hunger, but I also have a lot of respect for her for holding to her beliefs.

As far as what CK wrote, I do find that a little distrubing, of course I'll have to look into it a little more. I have to say the evidence so far is sadly compelling. Though there may be other unseen reasons for her actions or inactions.

still she had to have done some good for the poor and certianly more good than I have ever done.

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yeah, that's part of what I was suggesting too xguysjdfjfkmx.

I think being critical is a bit too easy in this case. Saying she changed the world in a positive way, but nowhere near as much as she could have... seems a bit harsh to me.

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Mother Teresa was a devout Catholic, born in the 19th century. Saint or Sinner, she was a woman formed by history and doctrine.

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Yes. I agree with that, Noddy. I demur from the idea that she feared she couldn't counter the weight of the church hierarchy.

To the extent that she was, and maybe still is in memoriam, for all I know, the beneficiary en route of quite a bit of funds meant to help thousands of people, some of us conject that there was some confusion among donors about the level of aid. Cereal Killers links don't completely surprise me, but do by the weight of them.

As an almost member of a nursing order that had a mission in India, early in my life, and having 180 degree different views now, I find her and her works creepy. Not that I can picture myself being as heroic in one's mission as she was, but I almost fell for the imposition of one religions's standards in a kind of help bribe.

There is almost no disinterested help. But not quite none.

I don't want to talk Eorl out of his view though, just saying my own.

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Osso--

One of the pleasant aspects of aging is that you do acquire a sense of the inevitable.

Many years ago I read that Mother Teresa insisted on each of the sisters of her order laboring in the Indian sun and the hospice filth should wash her white habit every day by hand in order to be reminded of the hardships of the poor.

When you grow up without servants--human or mechanical--you will always think of a world without servants; a world in which there is no rest from personal labor this side of the grave.

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Noddy, could you spell that out for me, the implications, I mean.

The habit washing thing reminds me of Catherine of Siena, of whom I know perhaps too much. But she lived in context too.

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From my point of view--20th century liberated, western woman, I'm personally convinced that my time would be better spent with the sick, using my unique skills than spending nearly an hour every day doing laundry. Also some woman with fewer advantages, fewer skills would be serving the poor in her way.

I see nothing wrong or degrading about manual labor as an act of worship--just WASP inefficiency.

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Re M. Teresa, inefficiency is one thing, lack of pain help is another, given the pain help knowledge available at the time, not to mention the money available.

Personally I don't know from household help. Don't think that's any virtue on my part. I probably arose from some household help folks, though there are credible earl stories. I still don't quite get the implication re M. Teresa.

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Mother Teresa did not wash her own robes.

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Quote:

No soaring rhetoric for her, no appealing to atavistic impulses to take to the streets for humanitarian causes --just a simple, central message that resonated among everyday Indians: poverty is not noble nor acceptable, social justice does not automatically follow economic development.

That message seized Indians and non-Indians alike because, notwithstanding the liberalization and progress that are fashionable to cite in this, the Subcontinent's 50th year of independence from the British colonial Raj, the chasm between haves and have-nots in India is so great that they might as well be living in two different countries.

Mother Teresa herself would sometimes toss out a statistic or two, softly to be sure but chilling nevertheless: 300 million people living below the poverty line, millions more with options for economic mobility denied.

Where were the jobs, she would ask, where was the large-scale investment in human development? What happened to the vision of Mahatma Gandhi and Jawaharlal Nehru, India's founding fathers, for a just India?

Powerful questions, articulated by a simple woman whose frail body packed more power than any other contemporary world figure. Like Gandhi, that power, of course, flowed from her spiritual wellspring. And like Gandhi, Mother Teresa was an unelected spokesman for the poor everywhere -- not simply highlighting their despair but also underscoring their hopes.

Source:
http://history1900s.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2FWORLD%2F9709%2Fmother.teresa%2Findex.html

This site also covers (to some degree) the criticisms.

I guess I'm saying that my criticism would be levelled at The Church and it's leadership, those who make the "rules" regarding contraception....and I'd give Theresa some credit for what she was and what she did that made a positive impact on the world....which is more than I have done.

I don't quite know why I'm on this side of the argument, I'd normally be on the other. I guess it's because I think people deserve credit for the good things they do, and I tend to excuse the bad things they do as inevitably "human". Maybe I'd make a good christian Wink

or maybe I just saw a side of the argument that wasn't being represented.

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Jeez, even Mother Teresa isn't safe from the cynics. This has become a sad world indeed. It's easy to critisize someone that sacrificed her entire life to helping people when you are safe and comfortable behind a keyboard.

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Atavistic wrote:

Jeez, even Mother Teresa isn't safe from the cynics. This has become a sad world indeed. It's easy to critisize someone that sacrificed her entire life to helping people when you are safe and comfortable behind a keyboard.

Welcome Atavistic. That may be because of the damage she has done by her hardline stance on contraception, which perhaps cost more lives than she ever saved. She may have been indirectly responsible for more deaths by starvation than Hitler. Open your eyes and brace yourself for a fun ride !!!

(Now I feel more like myself !! )

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Nod to Eorl. I'll look at that link.

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Eorl wrote:

Atavistic wrote:
Jeez, even Mother Teresa isn't safe from the cynics. This has become a sad world indeed. It's easy to critisize someone that sacrificed her entire life to helping people when you are safe and comfortable behind a keyboard.

Welcome Atavistic. That may be because of the damage she has done by her hardline stance on contraception, which perhaps cost more lives than she ever saved. She may have been indirectly responsible for more deaths by starvation than Hitler. Open your eyes and brace yourself for a fun ride !!!

(Now I feel more like myself !! )

My eyes are open. Your claim that she has done any damage is pure speculation. Like someone else mentioned, maybe she actually believed that birth control was wrong. What a novel idea. Unless you have sacrificed even half as much of your life to helping people as she did, I suggest you check yourself. You might not agree with her religious views, but she dedicated her entire life to helping people. You judge her actions from afar, comfortable in front of your computer while she spent most of her life living in the gutter.

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Atavistic, you might want to read a few pages previous before you start ranting at me. I'm the one who's been arguing AGAINST judging the woman harshly....at least I was up to the point where you turned up with your simplistic prejudice.

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Yeah, so strip away all the warm and fuzzy bullshit about her, and you have a woman who is NOT really interested in helping people living on this earth. Her only interest was to save souls for the so-called next world. What a crock! [/quote]

It doesn't get much more cynical than this. Did you ever think that maybe what she was giving to these people was comfort? Many of these people had no realistic hope of a decent earthly life. Many were lepers, or AIDS patients, or otherwise hopeless cases. She provided comfort in their time of need, and you mock her because she didn't give them a luxurious life that you or I would find acceptable. I find this to be disgusting.

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Atavistic, You make it seem like you are quoting ME.....please IDENTIFY who you are quoting ESPECIALLY in a context like this, where you and I are "talking".

By the way, the "someone else" who suggested she believed that contraception was right was.... ME....catch up will ya ???

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Not giving people adequate pain medication - while enlarging vatican funds - and other matters cited in some of CK's links, while promoting the virtue, indeed benefit, of suffering in a scene of religious comfort - if true, and while I didn't personally observe those things, the accounts seem credible - is a giant barrel of something worse than cynicism. Many of us are discussing her thinking she failed re her opportunities, but was living within her own well meaning precepts and did some good.

You're in front of a computer too, Atavistic.

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Eorl wrote:

Atavistic, you might want to read a few pages previous before you start ranting at me. I'm the one who's been arguing AGAINST judging the woman harshly....at least I was up to the point where you turned up with your simplistic prejudice.

I agree Eorl, maybe Atavistic is taking "hitting the ground running" a little to seriously.

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Was Mother Theresa a good person or a fraud ?

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