1
   

Tutankhamen's gem hints at space impact....

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 09:17 am
It is difficult to find good, "linkable" maps online. In this rather simple map, look to the west to find Siwah--the Great Sand Sea is to be found south of that oasis:

http://www.pnm.my/mtcp/images/maps/Egypt-map.jpg

Below is an image of the Siwah Oasis. Today, it survives as a tourist destination. In the ancient world, the temple there was thought to be a great oracle, which was often consulted at great difficulty and expense, being in so remote a spot after a journey through very hostile territory.

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis/Images/Landscapes/siwa02.jpg
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 09:45 am
JOE NATION ASKED
Quote:
But here's a question: Does anyone think that the early, early people of the area put 2 and 2 together and figured out that the surface glass pieces were the same material as that which was below them, only heated? Thereby leading to the making of glass? Or is glass even older than that, the result of over heated campfires and forges?

Joe(I'm studying obsession.)Nation


Im not the go-to guy on this but we know that in Ancient Iraq, they discovered that putting powdered sand on "talc" beads (called steatite) made the beads shiny. This was found at Tel Brak and , stratigraphically, Tel Brak is maybe THE oldest example of glass making. Its about 6500 YBP. Im almost certain that the ancients , while firing clay, dicovered that sand can melt , forming a nice glaze.Theres where I think glass making started, sort of as an adjunct suppot service to pottery.(Pottery needs higher firig than the temp needed to melt flint or sand)
For anything more scholarly, Id suggest waking acquiunk up, he has resources available on prehistoric industries.

I dont think that tektites were a "eureka" discovery in glass making except for the fact that they most often looked like small beads. A really large chunk, like the one in Tuts necklace, is a rare find , especially in the yellow. The fact that its sort of a cabachon indicates that the industry for faceting of glass hadnt been borne yet(Its a different technique than faceting crystal. Glass will chip out and fracture if its just ground without coolants)
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 09:49 am
farmerman wrote:
This was found at Tel Brak and , stratigraphically, Tel Brak is maybe THE oldest example of glass making.


I recall reading an article several years back that disproved that because of a finding in Cambodia. (or somewhere near there)

Or was that my imagination?
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 10:42 am
God, I love being on a thread with the three smartest guys on A2K: Farmerman, Setanta and










Lord Ellpus.


Thanks Farmerman.

Joe(oo, four! Me!!!)Nation
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 06:52 pm
some interesting tektites....

Moldavite - czech
http://www.galleries.com/minerals/mineralo/tektites/tek-38c.jpg

From Libya (they say):
http://www.meteoriteman.com/collection/tektite_pics/ldg_lamp.jpg

Button tektites (!)
http://www.geokem.com/images/nasa/tekmine2.jpg
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 06:51 am
That second one from the Libyan strewn field could be a spitting image of the one Tut had on his breastplate. no?
Thats also a big honker. It must have come from a larger piece cause it seems broken and coated with a "desert varnish" . They find most of the Libyan ones in thee vast "pedregals" which are what we call "devils racetracks" where rocks just collect in housand acre deposits of broken chunks , they get blown and water carried and then settle out and collect like gravel on a parking lot at a tractor pull.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 08:39 am
That button one looks like an arrested droplet, doesn't it? Like a bit of molten glass went plop and cooled enough to hold its shape at that point.

Cool.
0 Replies
 
Tai Chi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 04:57 pm
"The Tunguska Project
Director: Gisele Gordon
Running Time: 82:32

In 1908, an explosion equivalent to over a thousand atomic bombs rocked the Tunguska region of central Siberia and its indigenous Evenki inhabitants. Shockwaves were recorded all over the world. It lit up the night skies in London and Paris so brightly that newspapers could be read outside. Its cause remains a mystery.

In 2002 in northern Saskatchewan, Canada, Indigenous playwright Floyd Favel has become obsessed with the mystery of the Tunguska explosion. He decides it will be the subject of his next play. He sets out on a journey to the epicentre of the blast, asking Evenki elders and reindeer herders what they were told by ancestors who survived the devastating explosion.

But this is no ordinary expedition. Even before Favel leaves home, enigmatic signs and portents make it clear that this voyage will be something far more than a research trip. What Favel experiences will reverberate through his very soul. The closer he gets to the epicentre, the more his themes for the play unfold--full of pain for the loss of Indigenous cultures, increasingly autobiographical, and punctuated with whispered warnings and psychic struggle.

The Tunguska Project is a compelling portrait of a contemporary artist's spiritual and artistic quest for meaning across cultures and times. "

A local environmental group showed this film at a local college. It was very interesting on many levels -- environmental (rape of the land when oil and/or natural gas is discovered), treatment of aboriginals (Evenki pretty much left alone until aforementioned fuels discovered, now they, and their caribou are being pushed off the land) and the unsettling question as to whether an area of land can "communicate" it's memory of a past traumatic event to psychically sensitive individuals in the here and now.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jul, 2006 06:10 pm
Are there any "strewn sites" in South America? I remember a news story in the 1960's about an unidentifiable metal being found in Brazil or Chile.

(I did a quick check on Google. In 1957, there was a UFO sighting in Ubatuba, Brazil. In the 1960's three samples of metal fragments found in Ubatuba were analyzed. The metal was determined to be an "unusually pure" magnesium that is unknown and was assumed by some to be extraterrestial.)
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jul, 2006 07:24 am
Its been standard lore that no tektite strewn fields were found either in South America or Antarctica. When we were compiling literature for our Argentinian work, I see that one of the compiled lists has a paper in SCience (2002, v 296) . Its by a P.A.Bland and is about a possible new tektite field find near Rio Cuarto Argentina. I havent read it , Im just scanning the list of papers.

As far as magnesium metal, I couldnt find anything except in Wikipedia (and I dont usually fully trust Wiki) ,sure it wasnt manganese?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jul, 2006 08:06 am
The first testing of the Ubatuba, Brazil fragments was done in 1962:

Quote:
Only Magnesium: One of the original fragments, designated Sample No.1 by Dr. Fontes, was subdivided into several pieces and two of the pieces were submitted to the Spectrographic Section of the Mineral Production Laboratory Semi-Quantitative Emmission Spectrochemical Analysis. One of the pieces was analyzed by Dr. Luisa Maria A. Barbosa. The analysis surprisingly revealed that the sample contained only the element magnesium.

First Test Validated: A second fragment of Sample No.1 was submitted to a separate spectrographic analysis by Mr. Elson Teixeira of the Mineral Production Laboratory. Mr. Teixeira confirmed Dr. Barbosa's finding that Sample No.1 was pure magnesium. Further tests were run on fragments of Sample No. 1. These included Debye-Scherrer-Hull powder pattern X-ray diffraction analysis, density measurement, and radiation tests.

Not Made on Earth: The significance of Dr. Barbosa's and Mr. Teixeira's findings is that it is impossible to produce any element, terrestrially, that is absolutely spectrographically pure. These results, therefore, are often cited by proponents of UFO extraterrestrial existence as proof that the Ubatuba material must be EXTRATERRESTRIAL. Unfortunately, this supposition cannot be proven, due to the lack of any further Sample No.1 fragments for verification analysis.


The way the testing was done in 1962 actually destroyed some of the original samples. Tests of the remainders were done all the way through the 1990's. Terrestrial origin can not be ruled out.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jul, 2006 09:40 am
xray powder cameras still are about the same (cept with more computer power to do the analyses rather than having to read the diffraction circles on a light table. . Im amazed that pure Mg was found. Its like finding pure aluminum (which is never done in nature). An extraterrestrial nature with intelligent processing would be implied. Ill have to read up on Ubatuba. Got any links you can share?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Jul, 2006 11:39 am
farmerman,
There are probably a lot of UFO websites (even gustav has a file cabinet loaded with index cards from his own UFO research). The only website I would trust is from the late J. Allen Hynek's organization:

Center for UFO Studies

Of all the UFO stories (that I heard about) the Ubatuba story is the only one where experts were truly puzzled by the evidence.

This link is more specific:

Analysis by Dr. Peter Sturrock
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jul, 2006 11:27 am
In 1967, the U.S. government did a study of worldwide UFO claims. This study was called "The Colorado Project". Samples of the Ubatuba, Brazil fragments were analyzed by members of the project. In 1969, the project issued a controversial report ("The Condon Report"). Below is an excerpt from the report describing the project's analysis of the Ubatuba fragments:

Quote:
One case described at great length in UFO literature (Lorenzen, 1962) emphasizes metal fragments that purportedly fell to earth at Ubatuba, Sao Paulo, Brazil from an exploding extra-terrestrial vehicle.

The metal was alleged to be of such extreme purity that it could not have been produced by earthly technology. For that reason, this particular material has been widely acclaimed as a fragment of an exploded flying disc. Descriptions of the material's origin and analyses occupy 46 pages of the Lorenzen book and the material is referred to in a high percentage of UFO writings. These fragments of magnesium metal -- undoubtedly the most famous bits of physical evidence in UFO lore -- were generously loaned to the Colorado project by Jim and Coral Lorenzen of APRO for analysis.
**************************************

Although the Brazil fragment proved not to be pure, as claimed, the possibility remained that the material was unique. The high content of Sr was particularly interesting, since Sr is not an expected impurity in magnesium made by usual production methods, and Dr. Busk knew of no one who intentionally added strontium to commercial magnesium. The sample was, therefore, subjected also to a metallographic and microprobe analysis at the magnesium Metallurgical Laboratory of the Dow Chemical Company, through the cooperation of Dr. Busk and Dr. D. R. Beaman. Again, all work was monitored by this writer. Microprobe analysis confirmed the presence of strontium and showed it to be uniformly distributed in the sample (see Case 4). In all probability, the strontium was added intentionally during manufacture of the material from which the sample came. Metallographic examinations show large, elongated magnesium grains, indicating that the metal had not been worked after solidification from the liquid or vapor state. It therefore seems doubtful that this sample had been a part of a fabricated metal object.

A check of Dow Metallurgical Laboratory records revealed that, over the years, this laboratory made experimental hatches of Mg alloy containing from 0.1% - 40% Sr. As early as 25 March 1940, it produced a 700 gm. batch of Mg containing nominally the same concentration of Sr as was contained in the Ubatuba sample.

Since only a few grams of the Ubatuba magnesium are known to exist, and these could have been produced by common earthly technology known prior to 1957, the existence and composition of these samples themselves reveal no information about the samples' origin. The claim of unusual purity of the magnesium fragments has been disproved. The fragments do not show unique or unearthly composition, and therefore they cannot be used as valid evidence of the extra-terrestrial origin of a vehicle of which they are claimed to have been a part.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 05/16/2024 at 09:48:56