What sort of "respect" should be given to children ?

Negative criticism never works. It only succeeds in making the person feel badly about themseves and in children can actually cause them to stop trying.

Constructive criticism is where it's at. "I know you gave this your best shot and your effort is awesome, however, this is how it should have been done...."

Kids should be respected in that they are still people. It is also a good way to teach kids to respect others.

Fresco, I wonder if you can give some examples? As stated, it's a little general, I can see coming down on either side depending on specifics.

For example, I think that kids need boundaries and boundaries should be enforced, even if the kids don't like it at the time. However, I think some boundaries are idiotic. My daughter, age 5, recently went to a summer class that involved a fair amount of maneuvering through hallways to get to a different room or the playground or whatever. There was a "no talking in the halls" rule. She's a talker. She got in trouble, which she is NOT used to.

I think what's most important is to decide what is actually important enough to actually have a rule about, and then enforce the rule. "No talking in the halls" for five-year-olds is not a rule I would institute, if I were in charge. I would have no problem with instituting or enforcing "No hurting other kids, in the halls or anywhere else," though.

I agree - there is a huge difference between negative criticism and positive/construction criticism. Just because you are giving negative criticism does not mean you are not correcting a child. It's all in the delivery.

Negative criticism is saying things along the lines - you are stupid, you did this wrong, you're wrong, you can't do anything right.

People and children tend to shut down when you deliver criticism negatively. You do great at counting, now lets work on improving our reading.

I think this only becomes an issue when children are praised for things they really haven't done correctly - positive feedback should be actually earned. Perhaps that's the issue you are discussing - as I have seen kids get these huge GREAT WORK when it was only o-k.

Smothering a child in unearned praise is insulting that child's common sense in such a way that common sense erodes away.

book marking

Children are entitled to the same respect as one would accord to any other person--no more and no less. As for the contention that children are never subjected to criticism, that is an idiosyncratic and anecdotal statement. If true, it would constitute according to a child an extraordinary respect. If we are thwarted or inconvenienced by adults who are strangers, we speak up; if at our places of employment, someone's errors or negligences cause problems, we speak up. The same ought to apply to children.

Fresco, perhaps "respect" is not exactly the word that you are looking for, Brit.

A child deserves basic respect. Not more, not less, and communicated in a way the child understands.

I agree with Noddy's statement. Seen that more than enough! "Little Bobby can not do a thing wrong, and can't 'handle' anything negative" sort of thinking.
That isn't respectful, that is condescending.

Positive enforcement is great. I do feel it is okay to use negative criticism sometimes. What is negative? NOT abusive - that is not alright. 'Negative' constructive criticism helps a person grow and learn tolerance. To listen and think beyond themself.

Again: negative criticism does not have to mean abusive! It bothers me to no end that some people equate the two absolutely.

Sure, some rules are stupid. It's part of life though. Adults have to tolerate imperfection of living with others too. So it is a good lesson to learn.

To flesh this out a little ..a few examples.

I believe that in UK state schools (=US public schools) red pens have been banned for correcting children's school work, that a "time out table" cannot be used, and that profanity is ignored. Children are often encouraged to rate their teachers on a report card.

Now if these changes were having a positive effect on education and social stability I would certainly concede that they were for the better, but the reverse seems to be the case. The examination system has been effectively "dumbed down", vandalism and teenage alcohol related crime have increased, and knife crime has reached horrific proportions. Even the army is complaining that many volunteers are being rejected because they have no concept of self-discipline.

Obviously factors other than the school system have contributed to this trend, such as the decline of the nuclear family, and increased multi-ethnicity. My argument is that "respect" like "rights" might be an adult intellectual concept which is beyond the comprehension of children. Also, there may be a case for saying that the group or classroom situation should be handled differently to dealings with individuals because different social forces operate. (folie a deux...> folie a plusiers)

bm

Sometimes the issue seems more to me to be a question of how much control or influence should children (& the families that support them) have over their education experience? Should we respect their preferences of what/how they would like to study/be treated, to the point that their preferences over-ride well-founded educational principles & practice? Schools are treated more and more like market-places now, but often the "clients" or "customers" (the students) are in no real position to really understand what the consequences of the choices that look good to them now will be for their post-school lives. (BTW I am not advocating negative criticism, or anything like that. I am advocating schools regaining their status as educators & not acting merely as child minders, keeping their customers happy by giving them want whatever they seem to want, particularly in some of the more troubled schools.)

Knowing a couple of teachers, parents of school children, having tuaght at public and prrivate schools and additionally having some insight knowledge of the UK ... I still think, schools are schools.
Fullstop.

Taking your example teenage alcohol - what about the 'education' at home?

What can school pupils learn about adulthood when watching e.g. binge drinking adults?


I'm neither advocating negative criticism nor anything like that, and what msolga said:

My word, Fresco. Now I understand what you mean. Any school without some sort of discipline is worthless to the students and to the general public. As for me, I would like to see young people want to learn without fear of reprisal, and motivation is possibly the key, but to tolerate chaos as a way of showing "respect", is counter productive.

I think the decline of the nuclear family has a great impact on behavior. Agreeing with msolga also.

I wonder what you mean by the impact of increased multi-ethnicity? Increased where, in the schools, family, community?

Thanks for fleshing it out, fresco.



I don't see all of these as being in the same category. (Though I don't know what a "time out table" is.) What's wrong with children rating teachers, exactly?

On the other hand, I think it's silly to ban red pens. Children are going to need criticism and direction as well as praise, and it will be delivered whether it's with a red pen or not. If it's done with blue pens, say, the blue will take on all the same connotations.

"Profanity is ignored" -- this is one that I'd like to see more details on. For example, I'd consider profanity used as a type of bullying in class to be unacceptable; but profanity in a short story could be just fine.

The school I went to from 1st through 6th grade had 3 rules and 3 rules only:

Respect yourself
Respect other people
Respect other people's property

That worked quite well.

(Also curious about "increased multi-ethnicity.")

(Nice post from msolga.)

It can quite difficult to achieve that degree of cooperation these days, soz. At least in some of the more troubled schools I've worked in recently.

Multi-thnicy has (1) eroded traditional British educational values and (2) increased tension between ethnic groups.

Yes, Fresco, I am certain that is a problem in public/state schools everywhere.

As for students rating teachers, I think that is a mistake, as most tend to react on the basis of popularity and peer pressure as opposed to good instruction. The final evaluation is defined in what the student has learned that can make him a valuable member of society, and not his score on the PSAT or SAT.

Traditional British educational values seems to be a very vague term - at least, in eductional history, historians still divide school/education history in Wales, Scotland and Emgland differently.

Leaving this aside, "traditional" values have most certainly been on public schools, which are in Britain traditionally not public but private.

(Further infos may be found at H-net Education
and (on subscription only) via History of Education Society.

The 'great history debate' over school history has been represented in the press without looking at the facts presented by historians, something, Brocklehurst/Boyce published recently (presenting their report about the survey "History, Identity and Nationhood").