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Wed 12 Jul, 2006 12:52 pm
If God is all-powerful and all-knowing. Why did He create an angel knowing full well that angel would become the Devil?
Where did you get the idea that God had to know in advance?
One of my favorite of Neo's dance steps . . . do you get dizzy when you spin around like that?
Romans 9 raises the tricky topic of predestination:
Quote:15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
by this passage, if God created Satan, it seems God has power over him.
Setanta wrote:One of my favorite of Neo's dance steps . . . do you get dizzy when you spin around like that?
OK. Let's see if I understand. You don't see any evidence of God; but if there is a God, he must be bound by necessity.
Why not a God who can do whatever he darn well pleases? I mean why be God if you can't do what you want?
neologist wrote:Where did you get the idea that God had to know in advance?
God is supposed to be all-powerful and all-knowing... No?
Re: God's miscalculation on Creation?
Jeremiah wrote:If God is all-powerful and all-knowing. Why did He create an angel knowing full well that angel would become the Devil?
He didn't. You are confusing God-in-the-Bible with God in reality.
Only God in reality exists. Or something like that.
Love
Re: God's miscalculation on Creation?
Jeremiah wrote:If God is all-powerful and all-knowing. Why did He create an angel knowing full well that angel would become the Devil?
God creates good things (So He didn't create satan directly as a satan) all the time.. Then, they changed themselves.. It is one part of a examination.. My Prophet Hz.Muhammed (PBUH) says my satan accepted religion.. (So, doors r open.. I understand like that..)
1- In addition to the minor evils, there are numerous universal good purposes in the existence of Satan, and human attainments and perfections.
Yes, however many degrees there are from a seed to a huge tree, the abilities lodged in human nature are more numerous.
There are degrees from a minute particle to the sun. For these abilities and potentialities to develop, action is required, a transaction is necessary.
The action of the mechanism of progress in such a transaction is brought about through striving. And striving occurs through the existence of evil spirits and harmful things.
2- Since creation looks to all the results, the creation of evil is not evil, indeed it is good.
3- The existence of the angels, who are like the representatives and supervisors of the laws of the good matters in the universe, are established and agreed upon by all the religions.
So too, the existence of evil and satanic spirits, who are the representatives and ushers of evil matters and the means of the laws of such matters, is required by wisdom and reality, and is certain.
Indeed, in evil matters, a conscious screen is more necessary.
Since everyone cannot see the true good of everything, the All-Glorious Creator has made apparent intermediaries as a screen in respect of apparent evils and defects, so that objections should not be levelled at Him, nor His mercy be accused, nor his wisdom criticized or unjustly complained about, and so that objections, criticisms, and complaints should be directed at the screen, and not turned to the Generous Creator, the Absolutely Wise One.
Just as He has made illness a screen to the appointed hour of death in order to save Azra'il from the complaints of His servants who die, so too He has made Azra'il a screen to the seizing of the spirits of the dying so that the complaints at that situation, which is fancied to be lacking in compassion, should not be directed to Almighty God.
And even more certainly, dominical wisdom demanded the existence of Satan, so that objections and criticisms in the face of evils and bad things should not be directed to the All-Glorious Creator.
Beduzzaman Said Nursi 13. flashes..
neo, maybe the Islamic concept of kismet requires the sort of exegesis kevnmoon provided.
Re: God's miscalculation on Creation?
Jeremiah wrote:If God is all-powerful and all-knowing. Why did He create an angel knowing full well that angel would become the Devil?
Why does a parent choose not to have an abortion despite the fact that the doctors are telling them the baby could be born with downs syndrome? Or retarded? Deformed?
God
There is a Creator of all things, sometimes called God. Then there are many, many man-madeup gods. Nearly every culture had a different one and some had dozens of them. No one will reach any conclusions on God until they first figure out which god they are talking about. Most of the discussion here is centered around the Christian God. The Christian God was created by the authors of the Bible, and these authors don't always agree on what their God really is. So put some thought into the background of how the god came about.
Near death experiences put people into direct contact with God. They find He is nothing like anything thought up by man.
Love
A thankless job, trying to substantiate fable and myth with no facts available.
Yeah... especially considering everyone has their share of "guesswork" going on. Science included. :wink:
What you call "guesswork" is called theory in science -- it's like an arrow shot at a target and calling it guessing. If all the arrows point toward the same target and many of the do hit the bullseye, that's not guesswork.
In religion and the Bible, it's all guesswork. Uneducated guesswork at that because the target is hidden in the forest and one can't see the forest for the trees.
Quote:What you call "guesswork" is called theory in science -- it's like an arrow shot at a target and calling it guessing. If all the arrows point toward the same target and many of the do hit the bullseye, that's not guesswork.
Aaaah yes... says the one who believes science... a practice that really can't explain everything either... hmmmm... So let me ask you this then... When it looks like they can't explain something what does science do? Hang up their arrows in the closet? They really aren't shooting at a bullseye, technically speaking. What they are doing is shooting at something they in theory call a bullseye, however until the arrow hits it and they retrieve that arrow they cannot tell if it's really a bullseye or someone mooning them...
Just a thought...
Quote:
In religion and the Bible, it's all guesswork. Uneducated guesswork at that because the target is hidden in the forest and one can't see the forest for the trees.
Well I would suppose that depends who you are talking to. Of course to those who are swayed by science will stand just as firm as the "christians" to say the other is "uneducated" in their ways. It's just name calling really...
Poorly written retorts will not save you -- you are unconvincing in your nonsensical rhetoric.
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