The Pope in Valencia - Same Sex Marriage Controversy

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Pope blasts gay marriage ahead of Spain trip

Maria Sanminiatelli, Associated Press
published Monday, July 3, 2006

VATICAN CITY -- Pope Benedict XVI appealed Sunday for peace in the Middle East and for governments to help safeguard the traditional family structure.

"I ask your prayer for all families, that they will live in accordance with their God-given vocation and benefit from just governmental policies that safeguard their fundamental role in society," Benedict said in his traditional Sunday blessing, before a visit to Spain to attend a Roman Catholic Church conference on families.

Benedict did not expand on that comment, but the church has consistently criticized movements in Italy and other countries that call for legal rights for unmarried couples.

The Vatican's ties with Spain have been strained since the Socialists took office in 2004 with an agenda that has included legalizing same-sex marriage and making divorce easier.

Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero's government also has scrapped plans by the previous conservative government to make religion classes mandatory in schools.

The overwhelmingly Catholic country is hosting the World Meeting of Families in the eastern coastal city of Valencia.

Benedict is scheduled to travel to Valencia on Thursday and is scheduled to meet with Zapatero the next day, after a meeting with members of the Spanish royal family.

The Netherlands, Belgium, Spain and Canada have legalized same-sex marriage in recent years. Britain and several other European nations now give such couples the right to form partnerships that entitle them to most of the same tax and pension rights as married couples.

Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, who heads the Pontifical Council for the Family and will attend the gathering in Spain, said in an interview published Sunday that politicians everywhere should "rethink some decisions they have made."

He told the Rome daily Il Tempo that the world was "drunk from secularization," but said the decision to hold the family meeting in Spain had nothing to do with defying Zapatero's government and policies.

"There's no need to call a world meeting to go against one nation or the next, one legislature or the next," Lopez Trujillo said.

SOURCE

What's your take on this?

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Pope Benedict XVI appealed Sunday for peace in the Middle East and for governments to help safeguard the traditional family structure.

He sounds like a very wise man.

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Well, probably some of you know that in Valencia took place the Gay Pride 2006 edition, fueled by the fact that on the 4 of july of last year, a new law that allows marriage and adoption for people of the same sex was approved. Lets remember that Spain is, probably, THE most catholic nation.

On the 9th of july, last day of the Pope's visit, 2 marriages between gays will be held simultaneously.

The scenery built for sundays church service costed 600,000 euros. Ximo Cádiz, spokesman of the "I don't wait for you" campaign said that "We want to provoke a critic and rational reflection because, in a secular State, public funds shouldn't fund a religious and discriminatory speech".

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el pohl, I've many opinions on all this, none that I can put into polite words just yet.

I speak as a once very Catholic heterosexual person.
I'm still heterosexual but the other bit is long ago. My acerbity on all this is no help to anybody, so I'll just read. Maybe as the thread moves along I'll talk with logic instead of emotion.

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I'm wondering if we have some representants of the gay community here in A2K.

Hopefully this thread will advance! It seems that you have quite some opinions to make...

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There are quite a few gay people on here, myself being one of them. Obviously I don't see any reason to disallow gay people to get married. If the issue is that "marriage is between a man and a woman" then don't call it "marriage." If that is the definition of marriage, then by definition alone, gay people cannot get married. But that shouldn't preclude them from the rights conferred unto couples who choose to spend their lives together.

As for the "traditional family," I fail to see how letting gay people form a "union" will degrade a family. What my neighbor does in his house with whoever, has absolutely no effect on my life. And there is of course the talk about how letting gay people get married would somewho degrade the "institution of marriage." Given the rate of divorce is like 60% I don't see how gay people could make marriage any more of a farse than it already is.

It just seems to me that this is another instance where there's really no reason to deny the rights excepting that the people who have the rights think they are better than those without. That's just silly.

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Well, I sure don't have a definitive position in this topic, but - although I'm not against it - I do have my questions on how a child can be taught in a non-traditional family structure. Whether its 2 men, 2 women, or just one individual.

I agree with you totally though in the idea that the current family institution is not working anymore.

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Well, I'll just post that some of the wisest people I know are some older gay men friends. Shutting doors against their help for children to mature is absymally stupid.

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El_pohl--

I can't quote super-accurate statistics off the top of my head, but if I remember correctly somewhere between 45% and 55% of children in the States are raised in "traditional" two-parents-of-opposite-sex families to which they were born.

The Pope and the U.S. Supreme Court insist that by limiting their blessing to "traditional" families they are blessing the lives of all children. This plain isn't so.

Quote:

Well, I sure don't have a definitive position in this topic, but - although I'm not against it - I do have my questions on how a child can be taught in a non-traditional family structure. Whether its 2 men, 2 women, or just one individual.

Children are survivors. Children who grow up with totally inept hetrosexual parents survive. Children born to children survive.

If the Pope and the Supreme Court want to improve the lives of children, how about tackling the problems created by immature mothers giving birth to babies?

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Woah! Those are low percentages! I wonder how are we faring here in Mexico...

Noddy24 wrote:

If the Pope and the Supreme Court want to improve the lives of children, how about tackling the problems created by immature mothers giving birth to babies?

Definitively, and how about accepting the condom as a birth control method and fommenting its use?

I do think children will survive, but it will be interesting to see, in future generations, how are these (kids with a single parent or 2 of same sex) are going to handle their family when they have kids. For sure something will change. Probably a common question made by students in elementary schools when getting to know each other will be: "do you have a dad?", or: "are your parents gay?". Quite weird.

Hopefully some A2K'er who supports the Pope will give its point of view.

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el_pohl wrote:

Hopefully some A2K'er who supports the Pope will give its point of view.

well, here i am.

Marriage is a holy sacrement which cannot be defiled. i say that gay marriages would defile the sacrement because it (marriage) comes from the mutual love between a man and a woman, and exists for procreation. Hence why condoms cannot be accepted.

"He knowing that the children should not be his, when he went in to his brother's wife, he spilled his seed upon the ground, lest children should be born in his brother's name.
And therefore the Lord slew him, because he did a detestable thing" -- Genesis 38:9-10

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Marriage exists for procreation? Sounds like a child-making industry. How many kids do you have?

I am a sinner... Embarrassed

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el_pohl wrote:

How many kids do you have?

None, I'm not married. :wink:

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The Pope isn't married either--but he could be, if he wanted to.

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as i said before, i don't see how letting gay people have a "civil union" (notice, i didn't say "marriage") will defile anything. letting gay people have their union isn't going to lessen your love for someone else, at least, shouldn't. and i realize that the "right" of marriage is rooted in the bible, but quoting the bible in support is silly. i'd like to point out the bible says all sorts of ridiculous things that the population in general ignores. so why not just ignore that part too?

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I dont think the Bible is "ridiculous" or "silly" and i know there are a lot of other people who dont think so too.

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I think that, as every other book out there, the Bible needs a 2nd edition. Something more... ahem... up to date. Wink

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There is only one Bible, but there are many different versions/ translations. Try the Good News Bible (Not my personal favourite Laughing

)

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nick, clearly if the bible is the literal word of your god, then gays (and for that matter anyone who has ever masterbated without a priest present) should be struck down dead.

If, on the other hand, it was written by men, then perhaps it's worth considering why, at the time, the baby business was so important to the authors. Could it be that the tribe (and possibly humanity) was nowhere near as populous as we are now and that survival of the tribe (and possibly species) depended on as many successful births as possible?

Seen in this light ALL of the biblical leanings towards "life at any cost, even if it kills people" makes sense....but needs updating.

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nick17 wrote:

"He knowing that the children should not be his, when he went in to his brother's wife, he spilled his seed upon the ground, lest children should be born in his brother's name.
And therefore the Lord slew him, because he did a detestable thing" -- Genesis 38:9-10

nick17 wrote:

I dont think the Bible is "ridiculous" or "silly" and i know there are a lot of other people who dont think so too.

I think it not only has plenty of ridiculous and silly, but also generous portions of macabre violence and obscenity.

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The Pope in Valencia - Same Sex Marriage Controversy

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