More than 40% of our lakes are unsuitable . . .

Non sequitor.

Bullshit. Even if you knew how to spell it correctly.

Certainly, you are talking about your own beliefs. It's one thing to be a danger to yourself. It is quite another to endanger everyone else.

I will ask again: what skin off your nose is taking responsibility, accepting reality?

You're only in danger if you try to attack me.

But you'd be in mortal danger.

Aside from that, as usual, I have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

First of all, I am a true liberal. That means I foreswear violence.

Second, if you think that all 118 pounds of me would be threatening, then you're even crazier than your writing here indicates.

Third, your beliefs are just as dangerous to yourself -- which, if you were alone in the world, would be fine -- as those beliefs are to the rest of us.

And it is those beliefs -- along with the classic conservative I-need-to-do-nothing-and-take-no-responsibility-ever -- that make you such a threat to all of us.

The primary belief on which liberalism is founded is that I can only swing my arm until it comes in contact with you. The other principle is when two rights are in conflict, one is not a right.

You believe in pollution. You believe that there is no reason to protect life. You believe in doing nothing to make the world a better, safer cleaner place.

And, you believe in violence.

Rather sorry.

Re: More than 40% of our lakes are unsuitable . . .




If I may....can you answer this question for yourself?

I'd be curious to know what you personally intend to do about this?

Just askin'

What do I intend to do? I already boycott products that are linked to pollution or whose producers give money to conservative causes. I live a very low tech life -- I neither own a dishwasher nor a clothes dryer and I never intend to own any such things.

And, although it has to do with the ocean, I am writing a book on the Atlantic White Sided Dolphin, a junior novel from the point of view of the dolphins that discusses the difficulties they face because of man and his pollution.

Can you list some of the products you boycott?

Perhaps others would like to read the list, to determine if they would want to boycott them also.

Do you feel your personally boycotting a product is having any impact? Or are there other things you personally do to increase awareness (besides your book) with more people than yourself?

Anything else?

I support pollution? What the hell?

I don't want the world to be a safer place? Why do you think I support CCW and mandatory firearms training for all citizens?

Criminals suck. And liberals who don't wash their clothes stink.

Im a liberal, but by no means do I buy the level of pollution that POM has opened this thread with.
Theres a big difference between dissolved natural substances and polluted water. many of the great Lakes carry a burden of Aluminum, due to glacial deposits , also tannic acid in the sandy soils of the south.
If your Speaker had tallied up all these sources of dissolved solids and ph anomalies (from causes other than human) , wed see that a larger proportion of affected water is not even human caused. The portions of waterways that are affected by human activities is probably less than 2 % of all the water in storage in lakes, rivers , and in the ground.

All Ive been asking on your thread is to please spend time checking FACTS, dont just buy the **** you hear and question it not. (which is, what I gather, youve done)

LAkes are part of a hydrologic system which is all interconnected, Rain falls, it percs into the ground, and some runs off. Most of the groundwater discharges t streas to form whats called "Base flow" (A stream is almost 70% ground water) then the streams dump into discharge points, lakes and estuaries. Then the whole thing gets repeated on a cycle thats about 1000 years on average.

To call people insane because they choose not to buy your story is immature and not good debate. Ive asked you to back up your claim and all youve given me was a repeat of the author of the quote.. Thats circular . Thats like "Einsteins theory is correct because EInstein said so".

Where do the numbers come from originally? Like I said earlier , Ive got the latest US water Atlases , which areproduced on a decennial basis. It doesnt mention anywhere close to a 40% pollution mark for 2000(the last edition) Did all this contamination just pop up in the last 6 years? Are the scientists and engineers who edit the water atlases all wrong and this person you quoted is correct?



I think maybe this person has an agenda thats not based upon a respect for the truth.

Theres enough contamination and point source pollution to worry about (dont get me wrong). I think that stuff like dioxin and PCBs should be controlled by industry and the Feds should be doing a much better job than they are. The EPA has become pretty much a "last duck" in line of the gaggle that follows the entire admins bullshit. We dont need to phony up statistics and data to make a picture sound worse than it could possibly be.

to repeat myself, I think that is the case. Plainold, posting your weight means we need a recent picture. I sure hope you are female.

I totally accept that 40-plus% of our lakes are unsuitable for fishing and swimming. All you have to do is look at the mercury load in the water. Period.

I will acknowledge that some might always have been unsuitable because of their 'mucky' bottoms, a problem that has nothing to do with people and about which people can do nothing, but, within the context of introducing a program on the environment, were I writing Callahan's speech, I would not have included mucky lakes and ponds in the count, because they are beside the point.

Farmerman, you have concentrated on acidity. I believe mercury is a greater threat, particularly in light of the fact that mercury deposition comes from power plants and the bush administration has moved against legislation to install scrubbers on those plants.

Chai -- I prefer to not mention those products I boycott simply because certain posters will proclaim how wonderful they are. Do I feel it is having an effect? I'm a miniscule economic blip. However, I know many people who are also boycotting products. The move is made difficult because of the layers of ownership in food production and because brands mean nothing.

However, many of the organizations who email me provide information on producers, their methods and politics.

Why do you care about other posters proclaiming how wonderful they are? I didn't mind your saying you try to help the environment by boycotting, writing a book and living a low tech life. Why would you begrudge someone else to share that they do that too?

Is it more important to you to help the environment by sharing knowledge , or to keep it to yourself because you personally don't want to hear others share their experience.

It takes many miniscule blips to create a bump, why not help build it, rather than inhibit its growth?

I believe if you really cared, you would share as much information as possible with the world in general.

And encourage Okie and Ticoyama and BernardR to go wild in the grocery store? That would defeat my purpose.

Dense here...what do you mean?

The density ain't at your end, Chai.

I could be wrong, but I think she was trying to say that she's worried that if she posts her little list of boycotted products, a certain group of A2K posters -- myself included -- would dash off to the store to buy as many of those products as we could, just to counter her boycotting efforts.


Anyone else get the impression that deodorant is the number one item on that list?

Wow....that would be really paranoid and sick....and just so wrong.....but I'm sure that's not what she meant....I can tell she's really just trying to help the environment.

If you're afraid of swimming in U.S. lakes, rivers, and streams because of mercury contamination, you're either in a tailing pond at a steel mill, or are such a lousy swimmer, you'll drown about 50 years before the Hg gets you.

You should be ashamed, but, you aren't smart enough. This post is a real low level thing.