sidetrack to: ...spiritual awakening, insults and mockery

well.....I'm guess I'm still leary of people who PM me to tell me what an hyterical insulting person I am. I really didn't feel that was necessary or true.

I think it's not such a good thing when you need to tell someone you'll have to report them if they continue to communicate with you.

Maybe that sounds silly, but it just really hit me in the gut, and since then, I really feel like a little of my freedom of expression has been taken away.


Like I said, some, maybe most of those who engage in the slinging are joking, but some are not.

But every once in a while, something good falls out of the tree.

well, I know of orchards where most of the apples are sweet, and are good food for thought....I'm not going to hang around the persimmon grove waiting for one to become edible.

That's why I'm glad this thread started, at least for this page, the thoughts of those besides the usual suspects can be expressed. I wonder for how long.

Besides, you never really know what is going on in the life of the member on the other side of the net. Maybe he or she has had a bad day - a family tragedy or, worse, a bout of hemorrhoids. So whatever it is, it isn't really about you so much as it is about them.

Well, no....that's not what I'm talking about....


However, that does bring up another thought.....so, it's "ok" to be derided by someone if their having a "bad" day?

Honestly, if I'm having a bad day, I make every effort not to make it anyone elses issue. If I have hemarroids, or I'm just in a foul mood, the rest of the world is not required to accomodate me...

In the same way, if someone got up on the wrong side of the bed, that's no reason for me to walk on eggshells around them. I'm not going to be negative or mean, but if you're crabby because you're wife wouldn't kiss you goodbye this morning, that's not my deal.


That "you don't know" is generally a cop out so someone doesn't have to both deal with their problem AND remain a social animal.

Moody people - sheesh.....

Well, there's a way in between, isnt there? Excuse me while I ramble at length..

I mean, if I get this right, you're saying that it's bad for people to be moody because then they implicitly 'force' others to accomodate them, by being considerate. But thats in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps he doesnt expect you to "walk on eggshells" around him at all - he's just not going to walk on eggshells around all of you, by pretending he's cheerful when he's not, either.

I dont mind if people are moody. I get moody too. Life'd be too bleedin much of an effort if everybody has to continually act like they're happy. You'd end up in this sanitary environment where everyone acts happy, but noone is real.

Thats why I'd never ground in America, I think, with its Happy-Meal "have a nice day" mentality. Here in good ol' Eastern Europe, still, if someone is moody, someone is moody. You shrug at it and get along on your way too, knowing that you dont have to take it personally. You dont need to accomodate each other - the moody person doesnt need to act like he's really cheerful, and the people around him dont need to feel like they have to walk on eggshells. You get the real thing. (That also means you dont have to worry about whether someone is faking being nice, btw - if they're nice, its probly really cause they actually like you.)

Mind you, the mentality is changing, among the younger ones. And of course I dont mind it if the waitress smiles - thats nice (but then thats part of her job). Bratislava or Petersburg can get you down because of too many people being glum or rude. But on the other hand you're spared this creepy Truman Show vibe that middle-class America(ns) seem(s) to have.

The difference is - I dont mind people being moody, because I in turn dont feel the obligation to "walk on eggshells" around them if they are, (if it's not someone near and dear). They can be whatever mood they are, they dont need to fake happiness for me (is anything sadder?), but I also don't have to tiptoe around them. The sense that someone who's being moody 'poses a burden' to his environment when he's moody (instead of accomodating the people around him by faking a smile), only applies if you in turn do feel like ought to accomodate him.

I dunno. Outright rudeness is hurtful anywhere, of course, it can really get to me. But someone brooding doesnt bother me - I feel like that sometimes too, so why in heavens name would I force him to act happy on my behalf? I just let him be, and I dont feel like him being broody in turn 'forces' me to be or do anything in particular either.

Anastasia discovered this point when she lived in Bratislava, in a highrise suburb. She got creeped out at first because nobody smiled. I mean, regular folk at the bus stop or in the tram or in the shop. Middle-aged folk. No "oh excuse me, I'm sorry, have a nice day", just enter, shove, stand. She'd shoot someone a polite smile, and get this stony, defensive look back - that really got to her. But after a while she realised that they were being defensive because they felt she was imposing on them. By smiling at them, she was basically making them feel that they ought to smile back, make an effort, communicate, at this random stranger on the tram, when they already had to slug through a hard working day for a pittance in korunas, suck up to their boss, go to the market for cheap produce and take care of their family. Jesus, leave me alone already - something like that. (As well as causing bother by confusing 'em -- in a place where random strangers dont smile at each other, her smile was forcing them to think: wait, who is this person, do I know her, should I know her, did I forget?, etc.)

I dunno. (That part of) Bratislava would make me feel very lonely and bereft of comfort I think. (Budapest is much better). But in turn living in suburban America would totally tire me out I think... and the whole fakeness about everyone "being nice" and you never knowing how they really feel would creep me out. I'd start positively yearning for someone to break out in an Amsterdam cabbie's empathic grumbling. (We call it "kankeren" - cancering, literally - and it's an art form. Wouldnt miss it. Pretty good at it myself too.)

Anyway - rambling.. I get annoyed by those here who seem to actively work themselves up into some pompous indignation so as to achieve some kinda, I dunno, alpha male feeling ("ha! I sure shut them up!"?), too, of course... I dont see the point. They dont look alpha male at all when they do that, they just look silly, or worse, like tired pricks. But when someone does come at me rudely when he normally doesnt, I do realise that - whatever - he mighta had a rotten day at work. Just shrug it off, next day we're pals again. Like you seem to be saying that people shouldnt force you to face their moodiness, I wouldnt want to force anyone to act cheerful on my behalf. So they're not a "social animal" today - well, whatever. Why would I want to force someone who's already in a funk to act like a social animal on my behalf?

Makes me think of something else again. This question - you know, you meet some friend, acquaintance or whoever on the street, you ask "how are you?". The classic Hungarian / Croatian / whatever answer would be, "bad" . Or "same as always", or something like that. (Thats changing now, the twenty-somethings here - downtown, I mean - all seem to be sunny and happy).

The proper answer in middle-class America, I suppose, is "fine" or "good" - from what I understand of American friends, you would never, ever "inconvenience" someone by admitting that you're actually not so good (cause then you'd force them into actually having a conversation with you or sharing something personal or whatever). Holland's getting much like that, especially the office people, the aspirational classes. Personally, that creeps me out.

Enough rambling <nods>. Sorry to derail the thread

Ummmm....

...ummmm...

...ah, never mind!

proud of ya there, Frank; admirable display of restraint and decorum.

yeh - that's what it was...

This rings with enormous resonance for me today.

At work, there is a little ceremony when people hit their 1-year/5-year/10-year .... anniversaries. There's a speech from the boss, the presentation of a company tie-tack thingie, a cheque if it's one of the 5-year multiple anniversaries, and then a speech from the anniversary-celebrator, followed by snacks. Oh, and lots of clapping. Lots of clapping.

Today's one year anniversary speech was by a fella who's worked in Britain and Germany most of his working life (40+ years). Part of his speech had to do with wondering what they put in the water where we work. The unrelenting cheeriness and smiling made him quite uneasy when he started, and still puzzles him a bit.

The people who grew up here in very North American homes looked a bit puzzled. People who come from other backgrounds/other recent immigrants roared with laughter in recognition (which of course caused more puzzled looks).

~~~~~~~~~~

Sometimes cranky pants are cranky pants.

Other times they're laughing on the other side of the monitor.

I liked nimh's ramble.

Started a longish anecdote about WASP and Jewish cultures but it wasn't focusing, I'll come back to it.

Basically, kankeren = kvetching, and how people react to kvetching.

I pretty much never kvetch with/to anyone I don't know well anymore, because of bad/ weird/ huh?? responses from people who aren't part of that culture.

Ha!

Never mind, I've been known to veer off into that "they" category myself occasionally as well... ;-)

Hi Beth, Soz! <nodding>

I was kinda embarassed about my endless ramble, so I'm glad to actually see recognition.

One's gotta wonder how someone like Kicky survives in America.. (Thats why I like Kicky, probly)

(But I guess New York is just a universe completely of its own when it comes to things like this)

oh....don't get me wrong nimh...I wasn't talking about happy meal people...as you know, I have a sense of humor, but it's more gallows humor (hey who else listened to NPR on their way home, speaking of gallows humor, good piece was on there).

I guess I was thinking more about in real life, not so much here.

I certainly don't expect someone to "brighten up" when I enter the room. As a matter of fact, really bright, cheery and fake people can go jump off a bridge.

Maybe I'm really attuned to my surroundings, I honestly do tend to pick up the "between the line stuff" with people. It happens all the time that I'll be with others, and just get a strange vibe from one person, directed at another, while the 2nd person is basically thinking everythings cool. I've even said to the 2nd party later, "is something going on with you and so and so?"

Most of the time, I find my observation is right, and everyone else is all surprised. I've learned to keep that stuff to myself. I know that trait comes from my childhood, where I had to be super aware of my surroundings all the time. One misplaced fork on the table could mean 2 days of reprimands.

Anyway, I digress.....Thank goodness there aren't many people like that, but they are the types if they're stressed, by God, everyone should be stressed. If they don't like the way something is going....then everyone else should have a problem with it too.

Now, I may want to control certain things that I really can't, no one's perfect....but most of the time I'm really aware this world is spinning along with no particular thought of me. Things are what things are, so you might as well make the best of it....speaking of controlling (secondary tangent) one thing I Would like to control are people who's day is ruined because they had to wait in line JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!

OK, where was I. Nimh, you've got me all over the place oh yeah, I remember...there really are those who really seem to get more upset when you don't get upset by whatever is upsetting them. .....what? Oh you know what I mean.

Psst if folks are in a lousy mood they can always just not post.

I dunno if that gets to the heart of what you're saying, or not (forgive me, I haven't read the entire topic). When I'm in a lousy mood, I find things to do other than posting. I don't expect people to conform to me acting nasty. That shouldn't have to happen. It's not their fault if I'm PMSing or whatever. It's my responsibility to lay low until I can be around humans again.

This isn't the Happy Meal culture. This is, I like to think, human decency. Imagine that, not subjecting people to your foul whims. And understanding that other people might not want to be patient or put up with your crap. Empathy. I hear it's what all the cool kids are doin'.

Yeah, if you're in a bad mood, lock yourself up in a room and dont let anyone see you; cause outside we only tolerate happy people.

If thats called "empathy", I'm Micky Mouse.

Must be cultural difference.

Gee.

Sorry.

The point I'm making is, and I guess I didn't do it so well, is, there are a lot of other things that people can do, other than posting, when in a lousy mood. Why take that out on other people?

Nimh - I think you better just stay away from here until you're in a better mood!

Nah. It's 'cause I don't want other people to see me acting like a prick.