SierraSong wrote:
And you have proof positive that they're all innocent?
I'd thaught that's what courts do: decide, whether some is innocent or guilty.
At least in democratic countries, which "follow the rule of law" as BernardR called it correctly.
SierraSong wrote:According to MsOlga, if a person's locked up in Gitmo, they're all being tortured and held there for no reason.
(That's about as much backup as you've provided for your facts).
Wrong!
Go back & read everything I've posted here. Including media reports!
Asking a second time: could you please respond to this, SierraSong? ... Or perhaps BernardR might, seeing he agrees with
all you've said!:
msolga wrote:You have some relevant information that discredits Professor Alfred McCoy's research, SierraSong? Care to share it with us?
And as for David Hicks - you know something that hasn't already been published in the media? I'd be very interested to hear about that, too.
Certainly, Msolga. I am sorry. The USSC is the acronym for United States Supreme Court. As I am sure that you know, the USA has three branches of government-the legislative, the executive and the judicial. The executive( the President, his staffs and the thousands who work for the executive branch) the legislative( Congress and their staffs) and the judiciary( the federal judges-District, Appealate and Supreme.
All of these are on the Federal Level. The various states have the same arrangement- Legislative, executive and judicial.
The fact that each branch is fairly independent from the other, creates the wonderful concept of "checks and balances".
Now, I will repeat--When the USSC rules on the Gitmo situation, that will be the bottom line.
Then the executive will have to follow the law as laid down by the Supreme Court.
This USSC judgment will come this month.
I would really like you to elaborate on this post, BernardR. More information, please. As a non-Us citizen I'm not sure of what USSC stands for.
Also, if a decision
is made to close down Guatamano Bay, why should all the concerns that have been expressed suddenly be "moot", as far as you're concerned?
BernardR wrote:I read the posts on this thread. I am in agreement with Sierra Song. However, my agreement and the complaints of Anton and Msolga mean nothing in the face of the USSC decision to come this month.
If the decision says that the USA must close Gitmo and repatriate the prisoners so be it. If the decision says that the USA must provide the same kind of trials for non-citizen terrorists that it provides for citizens, so be it.
I believe in the rule of law. I will back the judgment of the USSC even if it is not in line with my thinking.
The decision will, as far as I am concerned, make all the discussion moot,
msolga wrote:Asking a second time: could you please respond to this, SierraSong? ... Or perhaps BernardR might, seeing he agrees with
all you've said!:
msolga wrote:You have some relevant information that discredits Professor Alfred McCoy's research, SierraSong? Care to share it with us?
And as for David Hicks - you know something that hasn't already been published in the media? I'd be very interested to hear about that, too.
What makes McCoy credible? Has he examined Hicks? What proof does he have? It's his
opinion. One with which I don't have to
agree.
As far as Hicks is concerned, I probably know as much as you do. It's my opinion (along with the man to interrogated him at Gitmo, along with his own confession, along with his parents' admisstion that he joined the Taliban) that he's exactly where he belongs. For eternity.
BernardR wrote:Certainly, Msolga. I am sorry. The USSC is the acronym for United States Supreme Court.
The US Supreme Court!
Thank you for explaining that.
If the US Supreme Court
doesdeclare that Guantanamo Bay should be closed, then surely this is an extremely damning condemnation of the US government!
msolga wrote:I would really like you to elaborate on this post, BernardR. More information, please. As a non-Us citizen I'm not sure of what USSC stands for.
But, for all your admission of ignorance in this matter, you're perfectly willing to make judgements for which you have no basis in truth.
SierraSong wrote:msolga wrote:Asking a second time: could you please respond to this, SierraSong? ... Or perhaps BernardR might, seeing he agrees with
all you've said!:
msolga wrote:You have some relevant information that discredits Professor Alfred McCoy's research, SierraSong? Care to share it with us?
And as for David Hicks - you know something that hasn't already been published in the media? I'd be very interested to hear about that, too.
What makes McCoy credible? Has he examined Hicks? What proof does he have? It's his
opinion. One with which I don't have to
agree.
As far as Hicks is concerned, I probably know as much as you do. It's my opinion (along with the man to interrogated him at Gitmo, along with his own confession, along with his parents' admisstion that he joined the Taliban) that he's exactly where he belongs. For eternity.
Nice try! But no dice.
OK, you know zilch & you're all hot air!
If the USSC decides that Gitmo should be closed, the decision will cover a lot of ground...Why it should be closed--the rights of the people being held at Gitmo--etc.
I promise, Msolga, to post the judgment when it comes this month.
And why might it be moot? It may be moot if the USSC rules that Gitmo should stay or be closed since the USSC will undoubtedly give large hints as to the liability(or lack of it) of the Federal Government.
msolga wrote:BernardR wrote:Certainly, Msolga. I am sorry. The USSC is the acronym for United States Supreme Court.
The US Supreme Court!
Thank you for explaining that.
If the US Supreme Court
doesdeclare that Guantanamo Bay should be closed, then surely this is an extremely damning condemnation of the US government!
And the
wacko says I'm the one full of hot air.
OK, a serious question here. An answer from knowledgeable folk, please. (No, not you, Sierra! :wink:) Just say the US Supreme court does decide that Guantanamo should be closed: Is it possible that the detained prisoners could legitimately argue (in an appropriate court of law) that they were held illegally by the US government ?
SierraSong wrote:msolga wrote:BernardR wrote:Certainly, Msolga. I am sorry. The USSC is the acronym for United States Supreme Court.
The US Supreme Court!
Thank you for explaining that.
If the US Supreme Court
doesdeclare that Guantanamo Bay should be closed, then surely this is an extremely damning condemnation of the US government!
And the
wacko says I'm the one full of hot air.
Why
should a person who doesn't live in the US know what USSC means, Sierra? The US is not the centre of
everyone's universe, you know. :wink: I doubt that you'd know what the ACTU is, either! (Not living in Oz.) Though you're now going to pretend you always did, by doing a quick Google search!
msolga wrote:Last Update: Wednesday, June 14, 2006. 6:08am (AEST)
Hicks subjected to most extreme CIA torture, expert says
An expert in CIA interrogation techniques says the Australian Guantanamo Bay detainee David Hicks has been subjected to the most extreme torture in the agency's history.
American academic, Professor Alfred McCoy, has been studying CIA interrogation techniques for 50 years.
Professor McCoy says Guantanamo Bay is an ad hoc laboratory used to perfect CIA psychological torture methods.
"Professor" McCoy is a liar and a kook.
What happened at Guantanamo Bay is not the CIA's doing, although I do think they had agents on hand.
That is a Pentagon-run facility.
If you want to talk CIA torture, look to the secret prisons where they keep the high-value captives:
Quote:http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1322866
3.
The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.
4.
Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.
5.
The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees (10 degrees Celsius). Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.
6.
Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.
According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess.
BernardR wrote:If the USSC decides that Gitmo should be closed, the decision will cover a lot of ground...Why it should be closed--the rights of the people being held at Gitmo--etc.
I promise, Msolga, to post the judgment when it comes this month.
And why might it be moot? It may be moot if the USSC rules that Gitmo should stay or be closed since the USSC will undoubtedly give large hints as to the liability(or lack of it) of the Federal Government.
Bernard - I don't thinkGitmo will be closed, at least not until Bush says it will.
I'd be really surprised if the Court thinks they can order the president to release captured enemy combatants.
What could happen if they buy Hamdan's argument is that our troops would soon have to be trained in proper techniques for obtaining and preserving evidence on the battlefields to insure that the terrorists aren't set free when they bring their habeas challenges. Amazing, huh? And gives the phrase "take no prisoners" a whole new meaning.
msolga wrote:SierraSong wrote:msolga wrote:BernardR wrote:Certainly, Msolga. I am sorry. The USSC is the acronym for United States Supreme Court.
The US Supreme Court!
Thank you for explaining that.
If the US Supreme Court
doesdeclare that Guantanamo Bay should be closed, then surely this is an extremely damning condemnation of the US government!
And the
wacko says I'm the one full of hot air.
Why
should a person who doesn't live in the US know what USSC means, Sierra? The US is not the centre of
everyone's universe, you know. :wink: I doubt that you'd know what the ACTU is, either! (Not living in Oz.) Though you're now going to pretend you always did, by doing a quick Google search!
Your knowledge of the Supreme Court wasn't what I was referring to.
And, no, I don't 'pretend' anything. Go play your silly games elsewhere.
SierraSong wrote: Go play your silly games elsewhere.
I don't think it's okay ask someone who's been on this site since the very beginning such - especially not be y rather fresh member.
Or did you only change your name have been here under a different before?
oralloy wrote:"Professor" McCoy is a liar and a kook.
[/quote]
Could you expand on that statement, oralloy?
I'm really interested in what you have to say because the information I posted came from a usually reliable source: The ABC - our national broadcaster in Oz.
SierraSong wrote:Go play your silly games elsewhere.
Well, that pretty rich, coming from
you, Sierra!
And hey, I
started this thread. I think it's OK if I stick around? :wink:
