A life without religion.

People may believe what they want as long as it is true and can prove it when they try to spread their dogma or whatever. They may believe that George Burns is God for all I care if they keep it private. At one time, I believed but on reading the Bible out of curiosity I was fascinated with the history and science fiction. But the contradictions, evil acts and self-serving propaganda made me realize it was just ethno-centric folklore, myth and apologia. They created a spiritual golem for their history. It teaches that if your religion is the wrong one they have the right to murder you and steal your land.

Kevmoon,

Consider this correction to your opening sentence.

The need to believe in a religion is life-style of much of mankind..

You go on to speak in anthropomorphic terms of the "friendship of bees" etc but you should consider why other species appear to exist quite successfully without the arbitrary and pernicious trappings of "specific beliefs". Indeed most of "life" IS "without religion" !

not to turn this into a debate. I just find that I get along quite nicely with a world that contains good evidence as its foundation of reality.

I began my own journey quite young (probably 8 or so cause I was in school and was getting the contradictory stories that make up the Catholic and Orthodox Christian sects) There was a lot of "Us v them" ,
My first questioning of my beliefs came because I had a mild disagreement with the CAtholic Churches classification system of the world (you were either a CAtholic, a "non Catholic" or a pagan). Then, when I was about 10 years old I was fascinated by the journals of Roy Chapman Andrews and that sorta shut the door nicely. Ive never looked back (even though I fumbled my way through Confirmation just to keep my mom and dad from freaking) Ever since early high school I was allowed to go to church with friends or a girlfriend, and in all cases we must have been pagans because we always did something else for a few hours on a Sunday AM. I recall a lot of "hevy petting" which, as any good catholic gabone knows , is one of the most dangerous "occasions of sin" because it can lead to BINGO.GAMES

I was at one time fond of calling certain of my thought patterns and rituals a form of religion, but have abandoned such asignations to avoid getting accused of being secretly something I am not. So long as I know what I mean, it all works fine.

Farmer, I was warned that it could lead to dancing (when I was flirting with Protestantism) and that it could lead to Protestantism (when I was in Catholic school).

Quoting farmerman, "I recall a lot of "hevy petting" which, as any good catholic gabone knows , is one of the most dangerous "occasions of sin" because it can lead to BINGO.GAMES" -
That made me almost spill my coffee..


On religion and living without it, I've posted my take on all that on a2k many times, but guess I'll line up for roll call again.
I am without theism, therefore I am an a-theist.

Used to be a very religious young Catholic person. That was more than four decades ago. I don't miss what I now think of a giant imposed spiderweb on my mind in those days at all.

I agree with Kicky that many people who have religious belief are good people who try to do well and often do. I agree with many that religion is an immensely destructive force in the world. I don't know how the balance of those two sentences works out. I'd prefer the destructive part just the f/k stop already. I'm particularly fearful of the force of stupidity from christian fundamentalism on the population and, by the population's votes, the government of my own country.

I am so far away from my old religion that I can now go into churches and admire the architecture, even walk in on a high mass service in Italy with the organ going bananas and be movcd by the beauty... without the rancor I felt in the years when I first left religion behind.. I am separate from the emotions of all that religious feeling the music and architecture is considered about in intent - I am free now to appreciate architecture, art, and music without having my mind bound by that religious intent.

In practic, the sentence that you adviced is true..

pls change irreligious word with unbeliever... I see I am so wrong about that word.. Because it contains enemy mean.. Yes there r many people , they don't believe but .. they r no enemy.. Only they doubts and etc..

(Wow, squinney!)

Personally I believe in God as both a Supreme being and a creator.

I believe He or She or It (meaning an entity beyond our understanding) is around and aware and has and does communicate with us.

I don't know about Heaven or Hell as we understand it but I don't believe our time on Earth is it. I believe we live on in some form even if it's just as energy. I find the concept of Hell particularly hard to swallow. A place of isolation maybe, a place seperated from a rewarding eternity perhaps, but not a place of vengeful eternal suffering.

I believe Christ existed historically and I believe He delivered a great message and guidelines for life. I believe He died for our sins if only in a symbolic way, and that He meant to and that his intentions were noble and that we can learn from Him.

I believe that the gist of his message is contained in the teachings and instructions of many of histories prophets and "deities".

I also believe that religion is ALWAYS perverted by those in power (just like everything else) and the way to peace and a fullfilled life lies within.

I believe that if you TRULY seek to do your best and understand the relationship between yourself and the spiritual world, that peace and understanding will be granted to you, if only just enough to see you through your own life happily, which I believe is God's wish for us.

I believe most organized religion is bullshit but some genuinely good (or striving to be good) people can be found in each one.

I believe I'll never know for sure until the end, maybe not even then, so I believe I'll have another drink.

The type of religion professed by Bear and Squinney, I can live with. I don't feel they would step on anyone's toes needlessly, and certainly, my actions can be no threat to such people as they.

I was raised by moderate Lutherans and used to be a moderate Lutheran until about the age of 19. Around that time, there were a lot of christening ceremonies in my family, including one in which I was the godfather. Gradually, a little more each time we recited the apostoles' creed, I noticed that I believe less than 10% of its words: "Jesus Christ [...] was crucified, died, and was buried." That's no basis for betting your soul on.

Even though this was not a traumatic insight for me, I went through a brief period of denial. That's probably because I like everything about Lutheranism except the theology. I adore Bach's music, the spartanic architecture of our churches, the grass-roots approach to the things that matter most ("priesthood of all believers"), and all the other cultural stuff. Perhaps I was afraid that by becoming an atheist, I might loose all the non-theological perks of Lutheranism. That turned out not to be the case.

At present, I am quite happy with my decision, and I don't feel that anything is missing that wasn't missing 20 years ago. I still don't believe god makes sense in a description of how the world works. Another question, one I'm not so sure about, is whether he is a useful metaphor for intuiting things that are awfully complicated to reason about. For example, redemption through the grace of god can be a concept to endure and protect your sanity in situations that you have a big stake in and some, influence on, but not a whole lot of influence. So I find myself flip-flopping on god the metaphor. But I never again took god seriously as an explanation of what is going on in this world.

bears are not easily threatened. We're basically uncomplicated creatures who wish only to run our own programs without interference.

We like to eat, poop, screw and play. That pretty much covers it. :wink:

Me too. We're not poopy heads, like dys and thomas and certain others, who shall remain nameless.

I will admit that despite our best efforts to be non threatening and easy going we do enjoy batting around a seal occasionally

Osso sums it up for me in that:

In fact, I like to look at all the variations of the Stations of the Cross from an Arts n Crafts standpoint.. Much of my music collection has variations of Bach 's works and Im a nut for religious "epic" paintings, theres so much going on in a Raphael, its almost like FE Church's landscapes.
I have a number of Fundamentalist minister friends and they know my feelings on Evolution. We have many delightful conversations and dont get all tight with each other. They say that they continue to pry for me and I say thanks because , without any evidence, I dont know they are wrong. I mean maybe there is a schizophrenic, antisocial,self centered deity out there. If its true and Im wrong he/she will just have to respect me as an individual who doesnt believe in "dont do what I do, but do as I say" as a valid teaching method.

Bluevein, if, as you say, you like to eat poop, I want nothing to do with you.
I agree with Osso that fundamentalism, both Christian and Muslim, is the greatest danger today.

Oh, yeah! I prefer to share a beer than the holy water!

I agree with jl, about fundamentalism. It's the bane of religion, politics, most anything else.

When i was in my late 20s, and had been living a life without religion for about half my life, a friend of mine decided to marry, and asked me to be his best man. He worked as a caretaker for a Presbyterian church at the time, and, as neither he nor the woman concerned really cared, they were easily persuaded by one of the pasters (it was a large church, and some kind of regional center) to be married there. My friends knew my attitude, and asked if i had a problem with it. I told them no, i didn't, and furthermore, that i'd do nothing to spoil their event for them.

The first time i was introduced to this paster, he asked how i spell my last name. This is a dead give-away--there are two common ways to spell my family name, but among the Irish, that spelling distinguishes Catholics from Protestants. I don't know if he thought i'd be so dumb that i wouldn't know, but i knew, and i relished spelling it in a manner which offended him. Can you imagine a thing so petty, so mean-spirited as that? That to spell a name differently by a single letter sufficed to "alert" him to the "fact" that i was his spiritual enemy? He never got as far as finding out that i am apostate, because he took offense, and resented me ever after, resented that i'd be allowed to enter "his" church.

I was careful to subtley mispronounce his name whenever we met, to emphasis the single letter difference in the spelling of our names. Enough to piss him off, but not enough for anyone else to notice. I rather enjoyed that, which was petty, i know, but i was young, and had been offended that he had been aggressive enough to insist on the spelling of my name. Now, i just find it sad, and most of all because of the hate that consumes people on the basis of such shakey superstitions. More than anything else, my reaction to organized religion is that it is a pathetic thing.