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Thu 8 Jun, 2006 01:31 am
On the wires, apparently confirmed by multiple sources, press conference upcoming shortly.
Edit to add: Now on CNN, ABC, and Fox; Reuters, AP, UPI, AFP, Al Jazeera, VOA and BBC all carrying the report, few details yet, but this is real by the looks.
Update - its real, allright - US and Iraqi official announcements have been made, Press Conference now in progress.
I'm always gratified when one with his character passes from the scene.
I HEARD ON THE RADIO THIS MORNING IN MY DAY CENTRE MINIBUS
AND HAVE SEEN IT ON MSN
ONE PSYCHOPATH WHO GOT HIS JUST DESERTS.
Peace be upon he who follow the guidance,
Jihad will continue in Iraq despite the Martyrdom of Sheikh Abu Musaab Al-Zarqawi, may God grant him the highest ranks in Paradise, Amen.
Who made that clown a Sheikh? You disgust me.
muslim1 wrote:Peace be upon he who follow the guidance,
Jihad will continue in Iraq despite the Martyrdom of Sheikh Abu Musaab Al-Zarqawi, may God grant him the highest ranks in Paradise, Amen.
...and what, in your estimation, did he do to earn that high place in heaven?
I think it more likely that he is being sodomized by the thorn cocked demon who ejaculates hot sand.... I forget his name......
That gives a whole new meaning to the expression "pound sand" . . .
Typically, as the day has worn on, more in-depth information has come forth, and the wingnut spinmeisters of all ipersuasions are spouting their prognostications. As is to be expected, more information is yet to come, and the spinning barely has begun.
One figurehead terrorist, along with a few close associates, has been removed. That is good, but that does not dismantle the myriad intertwined terror networks. It will not bring an end to violence, but it brings the end of the violence a bit closer. Its just a victory, not a triumph; the war goes on.
What it does do is topple an icon, for whatever that might be worth. What it does do is create a vacuum - even if temporary - in the leadership of Iraq's Islamofascist insurgency. What it does do is boost the morale and motivation of those combatting that insurgency, while commensurately negatively impacting the morale and motivation of the Islamofascist insurgents.
I expect the near term will show something of a spike in violence, as various contenders jockey to fill the vacuum al Zarkawi's removal has created. I expect we will see the violence attendent upon that jockeying bring about increasing indigenous Iraqi resistance to the Islamofascists, reducing the effectiveness of those who seek to impede the advance of Iraqi democracy. I expect we will see more, and more significant, indigenous Iraqi police and military effectiveness against the insurgency, with the effect of bolstering the nascent government's standing and viability. And I expect we will see this war, not just in Iraq but globally, go on for some time yet. I expect we will see rhetoric from all sides wax and wane. I expect we will achieve more victories, and I expect we will suffer setbacks. I expect we will see the Islamofascists defeated. I expect not only the Islamofascists will lament that.
timberlandko wrote:...I expect we will see the Islamofascists defeated. I expect not only the Islamofascists will lament that.
A truly sad statement, that last one.
What happened to the old days when someone was trapped in a house and they went in and got him? Two 500 pound bombs seems a bit excessive to get one guy. I suppose it is easier to kill him than to capture him. Too bad that a woman and child had to die doing it.
I think we all agree Zarqawi was a murderer and a terrorist and does not deserve our pity, but he did deserve justice, like every other being. A killing like this is no more or less than an assassination and I can see no way how anyone can describe that as a triumph. Even the men who drove millions to their deaths in WWII were given a fair trial.
With this assassination the US leadership is sending again a signal to the world that they have sunk as low as the men they claim to be fighting. A sensible leader would have explained why it was impossible to surround the house and arrest the terrorists (or fight it out as was done with the sons of Saddam) and would have shown regret that it happened the way it did and that a woman and child were among those assassinated instead of rejoicing in this extra-judicial killing.
muslim1 wrote:Peace be upon he who follow the guidance,
Jihad will continue in Iraq despite the Martyrdom of Sheikh Abu Musaab Al-Zarqawi, may God grant him the highest ranks in Paradise, Amen.
Chances are that "muslim1" is a provocateur, but if he is genuine in his sentiments, then he is not about to be persuaded by anything we have to say.
He is either a pathetic dilettante or an irrational lunatic.
(If not provacatuer, I wager it's the former)
timberlandko wrote:Typically, as the day has worn on, more in-depth information has come forth, and the wingnut spinmeisters of all ipersuasions are spouting their prognostications. As is to be expected, more information is yet to come, and the spinning barely has begun.
One figurehead terrorist, along with a few close associates, has been removed. That is good, but that does not dismantle the myriad intertwined terror networks. It will not bring an end to violence, but it brings the end of the violence a bit closer. Its just a victory, not a triumph; the war goes on.
What it does do is topple an icon, for whatever that might be worth. What it does do is create a vacuum - even if temporary - in the leadership of Iraq's Islamofascist insurgency. What it does do is boost the morale and motivation of those combatting that insurgency, while commensurately negatively impacting the morale and motivation of the Islamofascist insurgents.
I expect the near term will show something of a spike in violence, as various contenders jockey to fill the vacuum al Zarkawi's removal has created. I expect we will see the violence attendent upon that jockeying bring about increasing indigenous Iraqi resistance to the Islamofascists, reducing the effectiveness of those who seek to impede the advance of Iraqi democracy. I expect we will see more, and more significant, indigenous Iraqi police and military effectiveness against the insurgency, with the effect of bolstering the nascent government's standing and viability. And I expect we will see this war, not just in Iraq but globally, go on for some time yet. I expect we will see rhetoric from all sides wax and wane. I expect we will achieve more victories, and I expect we will suffer setbacks. I expect we will see the Islamofascists defeated. I expect not only the Islamofascists will lament that.
If the Islamofascists continue to shoot themselves in their collective foot by targeting such sympathetic locales as Toronto, your last sentence may not end up holding water.
The strategic value in Zarquawi's death is the demonstration that the US can and will seek out and destroy its enemies.
Bin Laden's survival is an inspirational tonic to the jihadists, but even they are likely to admit in their heart of hearts that a coward who hides in inaccessible caves is a difficult target. Zarquawi on the other hand operated within a major city in a land occupied by The Great Satan. That he could escape our wrath was either testament to our impotence or the blessings of God for the jihadis.
I suspect that his death will take the starch out of many insurgents. Perhaps not so the ignorant lunatics who are tricked into killing themselves to kill others, but probably the relatively sane ones who hope to accomplish their goal of power forged by chaos, but expect to be around to enjoy that power.
There may be an almost endless supply of ignorant and desperate morons who can be manipulated into killing themselves, but the number of clever men and women who are willing to lay down their lives to sow death and destruction is very definitely limited.
Just as bloody handed murderers, like Bonnie and Clyde, were seen as heroic figures by the common and destitute, we can expect that Zarquawi, simply by his ability to piss in our wind, was something of a hero to the down trodden in Iraq.
No more though.
On to Osama!
Conspiracy theories are fun, so here's mine.
AQ home office guys were not happy with Mr Z's massacres of Shia
civilians. Bad press. OK, so he stopped the beheadings hit some targets
out side Iraq and made a nominal submission to some Iraqi Jihad Council
or other, but Shia bloodbath continued. The best way to rid themselves
of this guy was to have the Americans take him out.
So working through intermediaries, the deal was struck. We'll finger him,
but you have to kill him, not capture him. Deal, or no deal? Deal.
Might be more to your conjecture than you realize, George - dunno. It is reported that "insider" info was instrumental in his demise. As for the other part, I dunno 'bout that, either - by reports, it appears he was alive and conscious when freindly forces arrived on the scene, but expired of wounds shortly thereafter. There was mention that he was observed to resist within the limits of his injuries when he recognized counter force uniforms. It was mentioned he apparently was aware of - acknowledged - that questions were being asked of him, but, apart from mumbling something brief and unintelligible, that he remained silent. The intel bonus of taking him alive would have been enormous, as would have been the PR potential. As it is, a great deal of intel was gathered, which now is being exploited.
Paasky, taking out an enemy on the field of battle does not meet the qualifications to be considered assassination. By definition, an insurgency equates to a state of war or open rebellion. Insurgents are lawfully considered to be combatants, with additional consideration to be given to the fact in this case the insurgents be considered unlawful combatants, in that they do not wear a distinctive uniform or other clearly identifiable device distinguishing them from the civilian population, do not bear arms openly at all times, do not separate themselves from the civilian population but rather hide themselves within it, and do not conduct their operations with due regard to the matter of limiting collateral damge to civilian population and/or infrastructure. Zarqawi unambiguously is on record stating himself to be at war with The US, Coalition forces, and the democratically elected Iraqi government, on record as, was observed to be, and generally accepted to be a leadership figure of the insurgency. He was taken out in full accord with the rules of war. What happened to him is a logical, natural consequence of engaging in war. Yes, it is tragic that some apparent innocents were killed as well. That too is a consequence of war, and their fate was determined not by those who took out Zarqawi, but by Zarqawi, who, in violation of the rules of war, sought to hide himself and his armed belligerent activities among the civilian population.
Finn, by impression gleaned from other postings of "muslim 1", I wager dilletante hits the mark, firther conjecture the individual behind that screen name is rather young, and I agree with your addition of the modifier "pathetic".
Dear Timber,
If we go by your rules of engagement, neither you nor I are safe if our neighbour happens to be, or accommodate, someone the US government considers a terrorist.
I thought the "war" in Iraq was "accomplished" on May 1st 2003 and that the US forces since then have been occupying troops engaged in "police tasks". Putting a price on someone's head (alive or) dead is illegal in my country and so is bombing him and everybody in his vicinity. If we are to be the good guys we must stick to the rule of law. Otherwise you might as well start bombing the slums of L.A. and the backwaters of Idaho where armed groups opposed to the authorities have their hide outs.
The way Zarqawi was disposed of does not set an example to the Muslim world of us maintaining our ideals of fair trial and justice for all and it has made Zarqawi a martyr for the extremist cause. His death will attract more people to the anti-western jihad.
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