Atheism and Death

"Death , be not proud".

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death
Everybody fears dying to some extent. It's hardwired into us for survival purposes. But I do believe that it's easier, at least, when one knows that there will be no "self" to be in a state of death, after life stops we stop too. Not only that but, since all experience (the content of our lives) is the creation of our nervous systems, when those systems stop, we take everything with us--in a sense. I don't know why everyone worries so much about the "after life" when we never give any thought (for good reason) to "before birth" states (what I think Midnight called the UNBORN state). I appreciate the grown-up attitudes toward our mortality of Frank, Edgar and Midnight.

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Guess I'll take that as a backhand???? Crying or Very sad

Quote:

I appreciate the grown-up attitudes toward our mortality of Frank, Edgar and Midnight.

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death
Actually, Husker, I took you for granted. But there were many things said that revealed maturity in this regard. Eauz, Sugar and Chakobsa made useful pithy comments, and of our you, Sozobe and Patiodog were right on. The only expert on the matter was Phoenix, given her experience. I'm sure I've overlooked someone here. Then, again, if it were not for New Haven (with whom I disagreed the most), we would have been preaching to each other the same verse. Thanks, NH.

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I am in daily contact with elderly folk who are making one last stand before moving on to either the nursing home or the cemetery. For the past eleven years I have been making friends and losing them to death. As has been mentioned here, the elderly slowly lose their independence, many their dignity too, as all is stripped away in preparation of the final act. Often they are all but abandoned by family in these final days. Last week I had a pleasant conversation with an eighty year old woman before she went in for what was to be relatively minor surgery. She died in there. None of this can make me callous to death. And, yet, I go from meeting these people to a serene life at home in a seamless move. I don't know who is an expert on death. I will never become callous to it, but, I will live life to the fullest before it comes to claim me.

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Re: death

JLNobody wrote:

Actually, Husker, I took you for granted. But there were many things said that revealed maturity in this regard. Eauz, Sugar and Chakobsa made useful pithy comments, and of our you, Sozobe and Patiodog were right on. The only expert on the matter was Phoenix, given her experience. I'm sure I've overlooked someone here. Then, again, if it were not for New Haven (with whom I disagreed the most), we would have been preaching to each other the same verse. Thanks, NH.

You're welcome.

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JLNobody

Quote:

Everybody fears dying to some extent. It's hardwired into us for survival purposes. But I do believe that it's easier, at least, when one knows that there will be no "self" to be in a state of death, after life stops we stop too. Not only that but, since all experience (the content of our lives) is the creation of our nervous systems, when those systems stop, we take everything with us--in a sense. I don't know why everyone worries so much about the "after life" when we never give any thought (for good reason) to "before birth" states (what I think Midnight called the UNBORN state). I appreciate the grown-up attitudes toward our mortality of Frank, Edgar and Midnight.

It is of course very likely that one could and does have experiences that are not dependent on or a product of THE nervous system; out of body experiences, astral projections, near death experiences, the spirit realm etc., before and after death. None however would be more 'real' then the other. Ramana said, "The only 'real' is that which is present in deep, dreamless sleep." (paraphrase). (meaning there is no life and death). And I think that statement is taken with the realization that awareness is present in all states, waking, dreaming, and dreamless sleep.

As Nisargadatta said, "That which was never born cannot die."

If death is relative you will experience the body drop.

But of course an atheist does not experience death.

If this life experience is not real, if you believe it is an illusion, why would you think the nervous system or brain is real? If this is a dream cause and effect only come into existence upon perception, upon awareness of them, as they are not two.

If nondualism is correct right now you have no brain as your brain cannot exist apart from the awareness of it, as the awareness of the brain and the brain are one. Yet the contents of this life with all its causes and effects appear to be a function of the brain. The nonexistent brain effects the present moment, but only when we go looking.....

If you are dreaming that you are typing on you computer, where does the electricity comes from?..............What electricity?

If you go looking you'll find something, and in this reality you'll most likely find a consistent, causal explanation.

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As an atheist I ask myself "for WHOM is death an event". The answer is of course for another!

We irrationally fear the cessation of the "self" yet happily part with "it" whenever we fall asleep. And what if "self" is,as some have claimed, a committee rather than a singularity?

It seems to me that "religion" is like the early physicists "ether" - a framework in which "continuity of self" could have a fixed frame of reference, and should logically suffer the same "fate".

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fresco

I've never thought about it that way but I think it makes a lot of sense.

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Couple of points I can't resist making, of course!

Firstly, (no suprise) I think mostly along the lines of jlN;
[say, we should start a thread where we go through all our opinions on everything, until we find something we disagree on, and...... Twisted Evil

]

Meanwhile, back at the subject;
Secondly, and least important, I take offense to the term "atheist" as it is a term invented by those for whom life is run by supernatural "controllers", which obviate people's taking control of their lives, and being responsible for themselves, and those around them, in the here and now. This does NOT include the many people who use religion as a force for good in the world; only those who use it as an excuse.
I don't think it is necessary for a thinking person to label themself for the benifit of those who do not have the energy to decide for themselves whether they agree, or disagree.

And thirdly (some couple, eh?); feeling strongly moved and upset by death is not a phenomenon of subsurface spiritual forces, it is simply our humanity manifesting itself, and not feeling this way indicates serious damage, that may not be reversable.
Why do deeply religious people grieve for their lost loved ones, rather than rejoice at their "luck" at having "passed on", it is related not to their religious beliefs, but to their humanity, that they care, and hurt.

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mind
BoGoWo, I almost missed it. You say you think much like me? Shocked

Just kidding; I'm pleased. The main difference is that I am nostalgic for the past (turn of the century) and you are an addicted futurist.

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Correction jln;
you are addicted to the past, and I am nostalgic for the future! Laughing

admittedly, a subtle distinction Cool

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past
BoGoWo, VERY subtle Rolling Eyes

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I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but I really like it. I forgot the name of it...

Well, this is how it goes:

..................................Believer................Athiest
God does not exist........-1.........................+1
God Exists...................+infinity.................-infinity

(I tried to set up a chart, just ignore the periods =p)

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Scipio wrote:

I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but I really like it. I forgot the name of it...

Well, this is how it goes:

..................................Believer................Athiest
God does not exist........-1.........................+1
God Exists...................+infinity.................-infinity

(I tried to set up a chart, just ignore the periods =p)

does it mean something?

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Christians can belive that god took them for his reasons, and accept that conclusion. As a atheist, it's just all part of nature. If we have life, dying is inevitable. When we lose a loved one or a very good friend, it means we will no longer share experiences on this earth. That in and of itself is very sad. Friends and family mean more to us than some unknown people - whether they live in the same city or in another country. That's probably some form of protection for our sanity. If we mourned every death, there will be no time left to live our own lives. c.i.

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truth
True, C.I., but, nevertheless, do not ask for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

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JLN, Yes, but, I want my family and friends to celebrate my life, not mourn me. I want bells on their feets, and never mind the chapel bells. c.i.

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truth
C.I., me too.

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midnight wrote:

Scipio wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but I really like it. I forgot the name of it...

Well, this is how it goes:

..................................Believer................Athiest
God does not exist........-1.........................+1
God Exists...................+infinity.................-infinity

(I tried to set up a chart, just ignore the periods =p)

does it mean something?

It sure does! Let me try again

Code:

                             Believer                   Athiest



God does not exist          -1                            +1

God Exists                  +infinity                   -infinity

There, now hopefully you can understand it. I'm not sure who formulated this, some famous Philosopher.

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Atheism and Death

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