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Proof of Jesus' Resurrection

 
 
NWIslander
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jul, 2006 10:11 am
Quote:
Know anyone willing to be killed, tortured etc to uphold their statement that they've seen Elvis alive?

No, you're definitely not an expert on the subject.

A good start though would actually be to read the gospel accounts on the Resurrection and it's aftermath, instead of relying on distorted second hand regurgitations of misunderstanding and misrepresentation.


I repeat, I am certainly not an expert on the subject, but just FYI, I have read all four gospels' representations of what happened. In fact, I just reread them before posting my answer here.

Sorry, the story reads like one gigantic fairy tale. You, of course, are perfectly free to believe anything you like. As I said, if you have an emotional need to believe that someone physically rose from the dead, no amount of logic will convince you that it is utter nonsense.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jul, 2006 10:24 am
NWIslander wrote:
Quote:
Know anyone willing to be killed, tortured etc to uphold their statement that they've seen Elvis alive?

No, you're definitely not an expert on the subject.

A good start though would actually be to read the gospel accounts on the Resurrection and it's aftermath, instead of relying on distorted second hand regurgitations of misunderstanding and misrepresentation.


I repeat, I am certainly not an expert on the subject, but just FYI, I have read all four gospels' representations of what happened. In fact, I just reread them before posting my answer here.

Sorry, the story reads like one gigantic fairy tale. You, of course, are perfectly free to believe anything you like. As I said, if you have an emotional need to believe that someone physically rose from the dead, no amount of logic will convince you that it is utter nonsense.


You will pardon the expression...

...but...


...AMEN!
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jul, 2006 08:54 pm
NWIslander wrote:
Quote:
Know anyone willing to be killed, tortured etc to uphold their statement that they've seen Elvis alive?

No, you're definitely not an expert on the subject.

A good start though would actually be to read the gospel accounts on the Resurrection and it's aftermath, instead of relying on distorted second hand regurgitations of misunderstanding and misrepresentation.


I repeat, I am certainly not an expert on the subject, but just FYI, I have read all four gospels' representations of what happened. In fact, I just reread them before posting my answer here.

Sorry, the story reads like one gigantic fairy tale. You, of course, are perfectly free to believe anything you like. As I said, if you have an emotional need to believe that someone physically rose from the dead, no amount of logic will convince you that it is utter nonsense.



If you want to convince me with logic, go ahead.

Instead, your argument is a stale retread from the 60's, when they at least knew something about hallucinations.

Try studying it on your own instead of serving up someone else's rant as if it had any credibility.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jul, 2006 08:57 pm
JLNobody wrote:
Rosborne, why do you discuss the issue of "proof", which as you know has nothing to do with scientific "falsification" since the Resurrection is said to have occurred ONCE? ....


I have said substantially the same thing on other occasions.

It didn't receive much of a hearing coming from me; we'll see if they listen to you.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jul, 2006 08:59 pm
Re: Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
rosborne979 wrote:


real life wrote:
Take a few weeks off, my friend. You've been working too hard.


Finally you've said something I agree with Smile A vacation would be great... one of these days.


Be sure and go somewhere that's nice and cool. Maybe fishing on one of the Canadian lakes. Ever tried it?
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jul, 2006 09:09 pm
NWIslander wrote:
I'm hardly an expert on this subject, but to my knowledge no one ever claimed to have actually seen Jesus rising from the dead. All they saw at the tomb was a stone rolled away and the body gone.


All anybody ever had to do to stop Christianity in its tracks dead cold on day one, and there were powerful people who had major kinds of vested interests in doing precisely that, was to produce one body....

That doesn't seem to be asking for a whole hell of a lot, does it?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jul, 2006 09:27 pm
real life wrote:
JLNobody wrote:
Rosborne, why do you discuss the issue of "proof", which as you know has nothing to do with scientific "falsification" since the Resurrection is said to have occurred ONCE? ....


I have said substantially the same thing on other occasions.

It didn't receive much of a hearing coming from me; we'll see if they listen to you.


I overlooked JL's post accidentally. Thanks for pointing it out.

JL, given that the title of this thread is "Proof of Jesus' Resurrection", why do you ask the question?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jul, 2006 09:40 pm
rosborne979 wrote:
real life wrote:
JLNobody wrote:
Rosborne, why do you discuss the issue of "proof", which as you know has nothing to do with scientific "falsification" since the Resurrection is said to have occurred ONCE? ....


I have said substantially the same thing on other occasions.

It didn't receive much of a hearing coming from me; we'll see if they listen to you.


I overlooked JL's post accidentally. Thanks for pointing it out.

JL, given that the title of this thread is "Proof of Jesus' Resurrection", why do you ask the question?


The point is that there are kinds of proof which are not empirical/scientific proof. Historical/ legal proofs are one example, such as the testimony of eyewitnesses.

Historical events cannot be repeated and so are not observable. Asking for empirical evidence of a past event is somewhat missing the point. Smile
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jul, 2006 09:59 pm
Another view on the topic...

At the time of Christ, it had been many centuries since anybody had seen anybody come back from the dead, and it was considered a hell of a big deal. There are two such stories in the NT, i.e. those of Lazarus, and of Christ himself being seen after they had died.

If you go back a thousand years from that time, particularly if you read Egyptian literature, you will note that Egyptians viewed the idea of somebody dying about the way we view somebody moving from Baltimore to Philadelphia; it clearly meant you would not be seeing the other person as OFTEN, but it assuredly did not mean you'd never see him or her again before YOU died.

We are clearly speaking about spiritual and psychic phenomena here and not about people bringing physical bodies back to life; THAT would be something from an Abbot and Costello voodoo/zombie movie and not from the bible.

There are several such stories in the old testament, including one very clear tale of somebody being seen by the living after his death:

Quote:


SA1 28:6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

SA1 28:7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a
familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants
said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

SA1 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he
went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

SA1 28:9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

SA1 28:10 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.

SA1 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

SA1 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

SA1 28:13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

SA1 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

SA1 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

SA1 28:16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

SA1 28:17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:

SA1 28:18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day......

0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Aug, 2006 06:40 am
RL wrote:

Know anyone willing to be killed, tortured etc to uphold their statement that they've seen Elvis alive?

Perhaps not for elvis, but dying for a belief is not uncommon. Just ask the families of the heavens gate cultists or the branch davidians.
Do you suppose their willingness to die for their cult beliefs lend said beliefs any measure of plausibility/credibility?
If not, how does this differ from your early christian martyrs, who's willingness to die you seem fond of using as evidence for validity of the christian belief?
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Aug, 2006 07:20 am
Doktor S wrote:
RL wrote:

Know anyone willing to be killed, tortured etc to uphold their statement that they've seen Elvis alive?

Perhaps not for elvis, but dying for a belief is not uncommon. Just ask the families of the heavens gate cultists or the branch davidians.


The Davidians were trying to get out of that building and were being shot at when they did.

Anybody ever considered putting Janet Reno in charge of Islamic relagions? I mean, you could tell her slammites abuse children (you wouldn't be lying).

I mean, I must have led a sheltered childhood or something, nobody ever firebombed me to try to save me from all the sexual abuse from older girls, teachers, principals etc. etc.....
0 Replies
 
NWIslander
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Aug, 2006 09:35 am
I
Quote:
All anybody ever had to do to stop Christianity in its tracks dead cold on day one, and there were powerful people who had major kinds of vested interests in doing precisely that, was to produce one body....

That doesn't seem to be asking for a whole hell of a lot, does it?


I don't know, they never did find Jimmy Hoffa, did they?
Heavy rocks could have worked as well as cement shoes!
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Aug, 2006 10:41 am
Real Life, I take your point: there are many kinds or degrees of "proof." Often it is mere supportive documentation. I used the term, in my comment to Rosborne, in its firmest sense. I assume that with regard lo an issue as earth-shaking as claims regarding the birth and re-birth of a god we might not want to take too soft an approach.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Aug, 2006 03:01 pm
By rl's criteria, we must assume the existence of such as King Arthur and Thor to be documented fact.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Aug, 2006 03:26 pm
timberlandko wrote:
By rl's criteria, we must assume the existence of such as King Arthur and Thor to be documented fact.


Twisted Evil

And Santa Claus...you forgot Santa Claus.
0 Replies
 
lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Aug, 2006 11:24 pm
Hey! what about Jack and the beanstalk... didn't he go up into heaven via a bean stalk? can't have more proof than that now, can you
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 03:23 pm
gungasnake wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
RL wrote:

Know anyone willing to be killed, tortured etc to uphold their statement that they've seen Elvis alive?

Perhaps not for elvis, but dying for a belief is not uncommon. Just ask the families of the heavens gate cultists or the branch davidians.


The Davidians were trying to get out of that building and were being shot at when they did.

.....

Research Falun Gong for a contemporary and ongoing example of people willingly dying for what they believe. Do you think the only possible reason is because their beliefs must all be true?
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:16 am
The point is not whether their beliefs were or were not true, but rather whether they BELIEVED what they died for was true. Admittedly, the fact that most of Christ's disciples died for their beliefs does not prove in and of itself that their belief was true, only that they truly believed that it was true.
0 Replies
 
Iasion
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 07:31 pm
real life wrote:
The New Testament books were written in the period starting from about 40-50AD and finished before the end of the first century.


Not so.
Check the facts here :
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

Iasion
0 Replies
 
Iasion
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Aug, 2006 07:55 pm
Re: Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
real life wrote:
What you have now is the eyewitness testimonies of some who did have that first hand personal experience of seeing Jesus after He rose from the dead, ate dinner and talked with Him.


None of the books in the NT are by eye-witnesses to Jesus.

Only faithful believers think that.


Iasion
0 Replies
 
 

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