Wait for usual suspect.
I don't know if that is intended to refer to me or not but if it is all I can say is that the starter post on this new thread is a rehash of what we have heard before on numerous occasions apart from the "criminal". That I think to be an error of fact of a high order. One is duty bound to report criminal activities to the police as I understand things.
I also don't see any point in starting a new thread when wande's has already provided a satisfactory forum for the debate. Doing so seems to me an error of procedure and manners.
On that thread I have already provided an admittedly superficial analysis of the balance in society between the self-assertive drives and the self-transcending impulses. That post has been greeted by a total silence as I expected.
In the last 200 years Western society has seen a rising crescendo of the self-asserting drives and a corresponding decline of the self-transcending impulses.
"There's a battle outside and it's ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a changin'."
The rate of change,especially latterly,is providing an unstable environment which is changing at a speed which some people think is too fast for both social evolution and for the evolution of the human organism in both its physical and psychological nature. And this change is being created by man's own activities.
These changes are taking place in the relationship between man and nature and also between man and other men due to rapid modifications under the spur of applied science and of the social changes which are called forth as a response.
An unstable equilibrium in society has resulted which is producing stresses and strains unprecedented in human history. A high degree of sexual excitation has been caused by books,magazines,movies etc and capitalism itself has caused an unprecedented concentration of energy devoted to the competitive and acquisitive drives which media and modern military technology has vastly increased causing aggressive and dominant impulses to burgeon. It is as if a 17th century blacksmith has been fed aphrodisiacs,injected with adrenalin and handed a private megaphone in order to become an executive of Enron and his body not having evolved more than a mite and his mind still carrying the weight of cultural conditioning through such things as folklore,tradition and art.
This has all taken place under the process of replacing the self-transcending impulses with the self-assertive drives and powered by the scientific revolution and the results include ruthless competition,war and political fanaticism at the social level and a rapid increase in personal psychological problems.
Human beings are not objects to be manipulated in the same way that science manipulates those items it studies. Organic evolution takes no account of the 2nd law. In fact it it the opposite. It doesn't diffuse energy,it concentrates it. It feeds on negative entropy.
That some people are worried about these processes is not surprising and it is to be expected that those who are will seek some redress or,at the least,a touch on the handbrake. To criticise them,especially in aggressive and self-asserting modes, is a sure sign of gross intolerance and provides everybody with an opportunity to see what they might expect in the future if such self-righteous,scientific reasoning comes even more to the fore than it is now. It is Calvinistic. It is as if there are no other points of view than that of the writer. It is also very simple within the terms of reference being employed. So much so it is tautological. Scientists everywhere must cringe in toe-curling embarrassment to see science defended in such terms. It isn't as if science needs defending in the first place. In actual fact science is discredited by it.
It makes not the slightest difference to the scientific concept of irreducible complexity that-
Irreducible Complexity (IC) is invoked when someone merely ceases to investigate a biological system any further.
and I'm surprised that anyone should think it did. It seems that anything anybody says has validity simply because it suits an argument.
Nor is it of much interest what the Pa southcentral District Federal Court decides. If the title sounds like a bus station in a nondescript small town in the boonies that is because there are distinct similarities. The judge may well have bought into full-blown self assertivesness having been highly rewarded by aggressive,competitive study and application not to mention any other possible motives of a more dubious nature and which decency forbears that I delve into. But fm approves of him and we all know why. Perhaps he drew lots as Rabelais had judges doing. Dover is not even the shine on a pimple in this debate.
2Who pronounces that something is indesputably irreducibly complex?
No-one does. The vastness of the field of unknown scientific knowledge is such that even the most ample funding the nation can provide will hardly scratch the surface even if society lasts for ten thousand years or more.
There is a natural limitation of energy,time and ability which will always leave irreducible complexity virgo intacta. The unsullied virgin is forever an object of torment to the aggressive self-asserter with his hubris erect.
Evolution theory is a simple concept.
And therein lies its magnetic attraction. One can spout it and pose as a scientist.
And do not think for one moment that everybody is blind to the alliance of vested interests in promoting aggressive self assertion at the expense of humble self-transcendence. And do not think also that high profile proponents of ID are anything other than aggressive self-asserters themselves with an eye on the main chance.
Watch out country dwellers-they are after your daughters.
So whether I am the "usual suspect" or not-pick that out of your teeth!!!