"Irreducible Complexity"--intellectual laziness or what?

Thank Wolf-

Very succinctly put and so,so true.



Really!! That randy ex-schools inspector who writes on education matters in the Sunday Times is always going on about "dumbing down".

I think another reason is that science exams are objectively marked whereas these other exciting subjects are much more subjective and thus failing anybody leaves the examiner open to appeals and suchlike potential embarrassments. Would you agree?

I think ladies fashions could do with increased funding. There's some horrible sights in the pub.

Oh, yeah, that one guy. There's always people going on about "dumbing down" but I've never heard of it being used as an explanation for less people doing sciences. The more common explanations I've heard are the ones I gave.

I think another reason is that science exams are objectively marked whereas these other exciting subjects are much more subjective and thus failing anybody leaves the examiner open to appeals and suchlike potential embarrassments. Would you agree?



That has more to do with the fact the ladies themselves either cannot afford to buy the better fashions or because they couldn't care less about what other people think what they look like.

P.S. Look at how this thread is evolving into a new one. I think it's very apt that Spendius refuses to create a separate thread investigating this topic. That would be Evolution, wouldn't it?

Based on the premise of this thread, it is likely that spendius will simply continue posting here.

I am making a public offer to spendius that he can post as much as he wants on my ID thread, if he promises to leave farmerman's thread alone.
This IC thread, as I have said before, is much more focused on science.

(My ID thread is broader in scope. Social commentary would be more appropriate on my ID thread.)

wande-

I am totally focussed on whether irreducible complexity is the lazy way out or not. One can't just keep banging on that it is or it isn't. Not on a forum that has intellectual pretensions. One seeks to shine a little light on various dark corners of the idea in the hope that the full picture will eventually take place.

Don't you think that there is an irreducibly complexity somewhere deep inside ladies fashions and to assert that there isn't and that it is all easily explained is rather to underestimate our principle tormentors and thus fall so easily into their grasping clutches. And guess who's idea that is.

How does a scientist explain that after 2 or 4 million years of human life we are no nearer to understanding the enigma of woman than we have ever been. I have read about some of them driving their analyst round the loop and analysts are experts.

It is not lazy to accept irreducible complexity-it is realistic. One might just as easily say that it is lazy not to fly around instead of walking.

I have loads of books on ladies garments and I have studied them but I can't make head or tail of the subject. What are plate lips for? Or infibulation metalwork?

I think your last post is much more off topic than any of mine.

We all know that fm started the thread in order to propagandise that IC is lazy. Are we supposed to sit here and let his views be put out to unsuspecting young A2Kers accompanied by authoritative technobabble without let or hindrance.

If that was allowed to happen some of the more extreme zealots of all sorts of wierd and wonderful ideas would claim the same privilege.

And anyway-what's wrong with being lazy. America has a great cultural sympathy with the Lazybones has Gone Fishin' type of thinking.

Is Reducible Complexity just another name for workoholism or hyperactive thyroid?

Irreducibly complex can describe the thought processes of many Americans. Take away one thought, and the rest just crumble like a Jenga puzzle.

Jenga, there's a good analogy for IC.

Take President Bush's strategy for Iraq. It all hinges on preventing civil war, which, of course, will happen because otherwise the whole plan collapses!

That's IC for you! Helping build democracy in Iraq.

Drew wrote-



????

What will happen- the civil war or the prevention of civil war. If it is the first are you suggesting that causing a civil war is the plan?

A good example of IC is a gear driven clock. THE idERS SPEAK OF HOW THIS IS A FULLY FORMED , most simple form of its kind. (cf Johnson , and Behe) They fail to recognize the connections that the gear drive and especially the calibrated gear drive have done to make watches possible. So we went from Egyptian irrigation wheels, to grain mills, to clocks , each time some of the internal machinery is modified to perform some different task in susbsequent modifications.

Behe has still not shown that hes anything but a lazy dude in this area of his work. Hes an otherwise good scientist, he just fails to apply the requirements of "be thorough and be correct" into his own IC inquiries.

Spendi, if you choose to comment, please speak out of the proper orifice.

phaaaaaaaart! Plop.

The clock idea is juvenile. We all know it went from a to b to c etc.How could it not?

Anyway-as this shows- I'm not an IDer. I'm testing anti-IDers to see if they can offer something coherent which they haven't up to now. Sometimes anti-IDers remind me of those ladies at weddings who make an inordinate fuss about the bouquets and the cake and completely lose sight of the nature of the transaction .They get ritual and ceremony confused.

It would seem an impossible task to distinguish between them.

We could discuss the social consequences of accurate time-keeping. That might be interesting.

I don't think he's lazy. I simply think he's got other motives; he's trying to find the answer he wants, rather than the answer that makes sense. He clings to the idea of IC desperately, searching high and low for something, anything, which can be proven to be irreducibly complex. He will never find it. It doesn't exist.

His hope of finding God's footprints in the mollecular sand seem to outweigh his desire for a legacy which will give him some respect.

ros wrote-



Behe may well be searching high and low and he may never find it but it does exist. It is called "Womanhood". Or "Our pretty companions" or "Blart".