tin_sword_arthur wrote:I don't know. From what I understand, ALL men at that time got married. You were left with no choice in the matter.
My parents are both Christians, and I've talked with them about it. The only answer I got was that somehow, Jesus being married "undermines his purity. He was to live the perfect life, without sin, and marriage would not allow him to do that." I got no further with them than this less than clear explaination. If god created and instituted marriage, why would it be so impure for his "son" to be married?
I know being married to me for so many years has certainly undermined squinney's purity....
blueveinedthrobber wrote:I know being married to me for so many years has certainly undermined squinney's purity....
Is this a double entendre? :wink:
tin_sword_arthur wrote:blueveinedthrobber wrote:I know being married to me for so many years has certainly undermined squinney's purity....
Is this a double entendre? :wink:
No, I think he's talking about sex.
Christians don't want Jesus to have been married because the Bible instructs that it is better to not be married so that one can devote oneself to worshipping God. Marriage divides ones attention and allegence.
However, the Bible also says that God understands that man cannot live that way, so go ahead and get married, but be the leader of your household / family and show them how to worship.
Christians need Jesus to have been pure and totally devoted to God, because he is God. Also, kinda freaks em out to think of God having sex with a mortal. Screws up the whole Jesus being the only son story if Jesus had perhaps fathered children.
Man how bad would it suck to be the Grandson Of God?
Talk about undue pressure to go into the family business... stress city dude.
Could Jesus be taken to court these days and sued for being a deadbeat dad and abandoning his family? That would make a good episode of "Law & Order".
This is the passage to which I referred:
Quote:1 Corinthians chapter 7 (NLT)
1 Now about the questions you asked in your letter.
Yes, it is good to live a celibate life. 2 But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband. 3 The husband should not deprive his wife of sexual intimacy, which is her right as a married woman, nor should the wife deprive her husband. 4 The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband also gives authority over his body to his wife. 5 So do not deprive each other of sexual relations.
The only exception to this rule would be the agreement of both husband and wife to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time, so they can give themselves more completely to prayer. Afterward they should come together again so that Satan won't be able to tempt them because of their lack of self-control. 6 This is only my suggestion. It's not meant to be an absolute rule. 7 I wish everyone could get along without marrying, just as I do. But we are not all the same. God gives some the gift of marriage, and to others he gives the gift of singleness.
8 Now I say to those who aren't married and to widows - it's better to stay unmarried, just as I am. 9 But if they can't control themselves, they should go ahead and marry. It's better to marry than to burn with lust.
10 Now, for those who are married I have a command that comes not from me, but from the Lord. A wife must not leave her husband. 11 But if she does leave him, let her remain single or else go back to him. And the husband must not leave his wife.
12 Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord. If a Christian man has a wife who is an unbeliever and she is willing to continue living with him, he must not leave her. 13 And if a Christian woman has a husband .....
25 Now, about the young ... who are not yet married. I do not have a command from the Lord for them. But the Lord in his kindness has given me wisdom that can be trusted, and I will share it with you. 26 I think it is best to remain just as you are. 27 If you have a wife, do not end the marriage. If you do not have a wife, do not get married. 28 But if you do get married, it is not a sin. And if a young woman gets married, it is not a sin.
However, I am trying to spare you the extra problems that come with marriage. 32 In everything you do, I want you to be free from the concerns of this life. An unmarried man can spend his time doing the Lord's work and thinking how to please him. 33 But a married man can't do that so well. He has to think about his earthly responsibilities and how to please his wife. 34 His interests are divided. In the same way, a woman who is no longer married or has never been married can be more devoted to the Lord in body and in spirit, while the married woman must be concerned about her earthly responsibilities and how to please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your benefit, not to place restrictions on you. I want you to do whatever will help you serve the Lord best, with as few distractions as possible.
36 But if a man thinks he ought to marry his fiance because he has trouble controlling his passions and time is passing, it is all right; it is not a sin. Let them marry. 37 But if he has decided firmly not to marry and there is no urgency and he can control his passion, he does well not to marry. 38 So the person who marries does well, and the person who doesn't marry does even better.
Christ unable to control his passion? Christians don't want to think about that.
Also, In the Old Testament, the Bible says:
Quote:
Leviticus chapter 18 (GWT)
1 The LORD spoke to Moses, 2 "Tell the Israelites: I am the LORD your God. 4 Follow my rules, and live by my standards. I am the LORD your God. 5 Live by my standards, and obey my rules. You will have life through them. I am the LORD.
6 "never have sexual intercourse with anyone related to you by blood. I am the LORD.
7 "Never have sexual intercourse with your mother. She is your own mother. Never have sexual intercourse with her.
8 "Never have sexual intercourse with your stepmother. She is related to you through your father.
9 "Never have sexual intercourse with your stepsister, whether she is your father's daughter or your mother's daughter. It makes no difference whether or not she was born in your house.
10 "Never have sexual intercourse with your granddaughter, whether she is your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter, because she is related to you.
11 "Never have sexual intercourse with a daughter of your father and his wife. She is your own sister.
12 "Never have sexual intercourse with your father's sister. She is your paternal aunt.
13 "Never have sexual intercourse with your mother's sister. She is your maternal aunt. ....
Since God is the Father of everyone, Jesus as the son of God would be having sex with one of his half sisters. This is clearly forbidden.
If God is the father of everyone then we are all incestuous.
Who was Jesus having sex with that meant it was wrong.He wasnt related to M Magdalene.
Jesus was God incarnate... He most certainly would be related to whomever his wife might have been.
Also, Christ knew he would die. How fair would it have been to marry Mary Magdelen, have her get used to having sex with "god" and then leave her?
Christ! Talk about mean. No mortal could satisfy after THAT!
He wouldn't have to have sex with her anyway. He's God. He could just snap his fingers, and bam, she's putty. He's the ultimate Spanish Fly.
There have been lots of stories about gods having sex with mortal woman and producing offspring. Hercules for example.
Perhaps denying Jesus ever had sex is a one upmanship
.our God is better than yours.
Paul said it was ok to marry, but advised it better for religious/spiritual people to remain single. Don't you think if Jesus had been married Paul would have used it as the ultimate example rather than chosing Peter or James?
(1) Re: the marriage thing. What Squinney quotes is from the New Testament, true, but it is the writing of Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles. Some have referred to Paul's interpretation of Jesus' teaching as 'the Pauline heresy.' Unfortunately, the early Christian converts acepted Paul's version as the final word in morality. If you read the Gospels which actually deal with the life and teachings of Jesus, you'll notice that Jesus himself has nothing at all to say about marriage or sex, certainly nothing to indicate that he was opposed to either. (Duce is quite right, btw. Paul was against marriage for Christians but added that "it is better to marry than to burn in hell" for the sin of adultery. That dirty old man was equating marriage with sex and hardly anything else.) But that isn't really what the major flap over DVC is about, anyway.
(2) The book -- and, hence, the movie -- is a work of fiction and does not pretend to be anything else. The author is not claiming that he has arrived at the final truth. I loughed my arse off reading the book. Brown is clever. The book is funny. If you read it carefully, you can see where he is talking complete nonsense, knows full well that what he is saying is nonsense, and is probably amused that people are taking such passages seriously. Example: Walt Disney was a Mason, [i[ergo[/i] the Little Mermaid is not only a feminist symbol but has Masonic overtones. Another example: William Shakespeare was an influential Mason in 17th Century London. There are dozens of examples such as these in the book. It's fiction, folks; it's inspired lunacy in some places, reminiscent of some of Mack Sennet's early slapstick comedies. I could picture Charlie Chaplin in the role which Tom Hanks will will. But the major flap isn't about the book either.
(3) The Church is complaining very loudly that the lay order Opus Dei is viciously misrepresented in both book and movie, that Ious Dei is really a do-gooder, God-fearing, people-loving organization, nothing like what this work of fiction represents. I wonder. The first time Opus Dei came to public notice, prior to the publication of the DVC, was when it was revealed that the FBI mole and double-agent Hanson had been a member. That made the newshounds look deeper into the doings of this secretive cult. They discovered an organization that smacked mightily of the Middle Ages. Opus Dei had gotten its foot into the Vatican and it was reveled that the beloved Polish Pope was under the organization's sway. I don't know how close the current German Pope is to Opus Dei but I suspect that that's what the flap is really about.
[If I should go missing, having said that, or if my mutilated body is discovered floating in the Charles River, be it known that I have left a complete manuscript of my exhaustive investigation with my solicitors, Mssrs. Cheetham, Bilkum & Frawd.]
In the early days of Christianity, Jesus was the main figure of much debate and several theological currents, which I have forgotten the names of. One of the chief problems was this... Was Jesus a. A mere human, endowed by god with special 'powers'? b. the manifestation of god on earth?
These discussions of course had vital implications to Jesus' bride. A mere human would have one. The son of God wouldn't. The complications that would arise if Jesus DID have a bride are many. For instance, what happened to his progeny?
Naj
Aaa . . . maybe he was shootin' blanks . . . happened to George Washington, ya know.
God is perfect, remember? If his manifestation starts shooting blanks, well, that don't imply no perfection in my eyes.
As for comparing the J-man with the W-man... hmm... Might be an interesting topic in and of itself.
If Jesus wanted to shoot blanks, he could shoot blanks
As far as Paul....pffffhttt.
I doubt if men in biblical times who went ahead and got married would want to shoot blanks, Chai... Really.
Yeah, but if he wanted to, he could.
Just as a footnote: there is absolutely nothing in the Gospels of the New Testament to indicate that Jesus was celibate. That is a much later Church tradition with no historical basis. And neither I nor Mr. Brown (daVinci author) are the first to have noticed that, by a long shot.
