Asteroid IMPACT, a WHAT IF thread

Just found this thread.

Will be reading later with great interest.

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How can you be so callous CT? This is DOOMSDAY were talking about here? You must proffer some caring thought like"Oh The HUMANITY!!".

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farmerman wrote:

Why are we plundering orphanages again?
A big attack helicopter is merely a platform to carry weapons(not a lot of actual inside room). Why not a heavy-lift helicopter?

I was going to extend the genetic diversity of the crew by selecting orphans from the Pacific region (tested on health and intelligence) to take along. In addition, having a bunch of kids would plug the age gap between the original crew of craftsmen and experts and their first generation of offspring.

The chopper I had in mind would be the Mil Mi-24 in its search and rescue version. The Mi-24 is not only an attack helicopter but can transport up to 6 people or a similar load of cargo. It is multi-functional.

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Ok, I was getting concerned about a eugenics flavor that seemed to be kicking in. SO you want to preserve diversity. Cool.

Im not familiar with that chopper, Is that the one they used onTV to haul that Mammoth out of the Kamchatka? It looked like a giant round nosed Huey.
I would suggest a jet copter , they can burn MTBE'd ester oils (goosed up deisel) and jet engines were said , to me by our old flight crews> to be really easy to repair.

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farmerman wrote:

How can you be so callous CT? This is DOOMSDAY were talking about here? You must proffer some caring thought like"Oh The HUMANITY!!".

If I say that then Paasky is gonna yell at me, and I don't wanna get sent to bed.

I'm not even tired.

Really, I'm very much enjoying this.

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If you read Anne Frank's Diary carefully, you will note the initial good will and optimism of the Annex. Realistically it was too confined for 8 people. Anne, her sister, mom, dad, peter, his dad and mom, and the dentist. Living 24 hours together in such tight quarters will bound to fray nerves as territoriality comes in such as the case with Anne and the dentist for the table in which she wrote her diary accounts for which the dentist had scant interest and less respect. It is like a little stone in your shoe. You could bear it for a while but after a few hours it begins to become a real discomfort. Yes, put in the conflicts inside the bunker.

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I am worried about the callous element of collecting kids for their diverse genetic payload Confused

, but one has to keep in mind that we are saving their lives in the process.

The Mi-24 is well known from some films. It is very big (with 2 jet engines!) and especially recognisable by the 2 stub wings that give extra lift and serve as hard point for most of the weaponry (In the search and resuce version those wings have been removed to make hovering easier and the gunner would operate the infra red and night vision equipment (but the .50 gatling gun can be reinstalled in case of trouble). The machine is heavily armoured (the tub cockpits have titanium armour that will stop point blank 20 mm rounds and the glass canopy is estimated to withstand .50 hits) which wil be useful when scouting out terain where unfriendly (or just frightened) survivors may be expected.

You can buy a second hand Mi-24 for 2.5 million USD.

(I think the mammoth was flown by the nephew of the Mi-24, also used a lot in Afghanistan)

Talk72000 we will not be holed up in a bunker, but on a very large boat built to carry almost 10 times as many passengers. We will also be making landfall whenever the circumstances allow (to forage/scavenge for additional supplies and perhaps to look for other survivors). We wil also have entertainment aboard (like a band, karaoke Mad

, playstation, films, etc.). Finally, we will have at least one psychological therapist on the ship (to deal with the trauma of survival).

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You need nurses too or a doc for sickness and an engineer or marine engineer in case the boat engine. How about a singer or two complete with band for entertainment or have a loadul of DVDs and records or music CDs.

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talk72000 wrote:

You need nurses too or a doc for sickness and an engineer or marine engineer in case the boat engine. How about a singer or two complete with band for entertainment or have a loadul of DVDs and records or music CDs.

See the earlier crew and stuff lists for who and what I intend to bring along.

And a drawing of the Mil Mi-24 attack chopper. The search and rescue version does not have such big wings.

http://www.suchoj.com/andere/Mi-24/riss/Mi-24D_12.jpg

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The thing am focusing on now is how governments would react. The social contract between governments and their citizens is that the citizens obey the laws provided the government protects them from those who don't. The governments of nations inside the circle of destruction caused by the direct impact need worry only about fleeing; who stays is done for.
But what about those areas that will escape the short term destruction but will be hit by the long term effects of climatic and meteorological upheaval, with as a result failing crops, economic breakdown, disrupted infrastructure. Which in turn will lead in many places to popular migration, driven by cold and hunger, this will lead to conflict over scarce resources. The refugees from the harder hit areas will spread the conflict to the areas where the situation is better. The lack of medical care and proper nutrition will also lead to an increase in mortality due to infectuous diseases.

Now, any government can foresee this, but what will be their policy to deal with these problems? Will they infrom their population and try to minimise the adverse effects, or wil they keep things under covers as long as possible (so as to avoid panic) and just make sure they have a deep and secure shelter themselves? How will the population react. Even under normal conditions people commence to hoard supplies at the news of impending trouble. Will their government be prepared? Will there be enough fuel supplies to maintain distribution? How will the media cover the events in different countries? Will CNN present it as the greatest show on earth (a bit like Desert Storm meets the Superbowl, but without Janet Jackson's breast)? And will Dr Phil and Oprah counsel us as to how we should deal with the whole thing?

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I have been browsing a bit the on-line presence of American suvivalists, of which I was aware before, but I had never looked into it much. Sites like http://www.survivalblog.com/ have a wealth of useful information for my story but they people behind it are not the kind of people I would gladly invite along on my fictional expedition. The majority appears to me as right wing Christian white anglo middle class men who seem to be very spooked by anything that is not right wing Christian white anglo middle class. They display no interest in saving their community, let alone modern civilisation with its ethnic diversity. They are very adamant about their rights, but not so concerned about their duties to their fellow men (looking out for number one). And finally, they place an irrealistic importance on amassing firearms and military equipment.

In my scenario these survivalists will be in dire straits, as much of the US will become uninhabitable for an extended period of time. Everyone in the US knows that Idaho is the best place to retreat to (according to the survivalist rulebook and many TV programmes), so masses of people will be travelling there and with all the guns that are in circulation in the US, it is not unlikely that there will be much bloodshed over stashes of food and other resources (before the winter will force all people southwards). The survivalist creed does not stress community defense but isolation, making them a relatively easy target for roving bands of desperate and starving refugees (who massively outnumber them).

One weak point in my story that I still have to explain away satisfactorily is how to neutralise (fictionally) the naval powers. Of course all units in the Pacific can be assumed lost, and the surviving naval units of Australia, New Zealand and India can be assumed to have their hands full with the rescue efforts. What I would focus on are the Russian and US Atlantic fleets as well as the combined European navies. These units have the resources to remain at sea for many months and they possesss the offensive power to completely double-cross the survival plan (by commandeering the resources we carry for their own use under some kind of state of emergency excuse).

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Ive been working away from homebase for the last week so Im just catching up on threads.
There was a book by Neville Shutte that I read as a little kid . It was called "On the BEach" The scenario wasnt much different in that a nuclear sub had the capability to survive a nuclear war but the radiation began moving in a manner that (although we now know was counter to what Shutte wrote) left the world a radiation wasteland and everyone died. The sub could still travel around till it ran out of fuel and food.

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Me and my buddies talk about this over beers. It makes for fun and interesting conversation (and often hilarious).

My plan was to have a well stocked stash in the High Sierras and a pre-packed backpack and my motorcycle.

As soon as some emergency happened I could hop on my bike loaded with my backpack and enough gas to get to the trailhead.In the backpack would be everything you put in a backpack except I would add a handgun.My plan looks stupid at first but if you really think about it is a good one.

In my stash would be;

Penicillin, First aid, Pain killers, medical references, Game rifle, Ammo,Two bows, 10 replacement bow strings, case of shafts, Huge jar of arrow heads, a **** load of fishing line, a **** load of hooks, 6 months of dry storage food, Food preservative, Books (pleasure), Wilderness survival Books, Water, Water purifier, Winter clothes for freezing tempatures, four grand in gold, three axe handles, Axe and pick heads, nylon rope, bailing wire, duct tape, Solar and crank powerd radio, Self-powerd flash lights (those kind you shake).

So what do you think? will I make it?????

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The US Navy operates in all the oceans of the world. They are present in the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific. If the vessels are in a harbor that is shielded from the tsunamis i.e. it is not facing the force of the pressure waves the vessels would be more or less be okay depending on the size of the tsunamis.

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Amigo wrote:

So what do you think? will I make it?????

Hi Amigo,

It all depends on when and where you go and what emergency you face. If you leave before the general public becomes aware of an impending disaster your chances of reaching your destination are good.

If you leave when numerous others also see the writing on the wall it becomes all the more hazardous. How far away is your retreat? If you can reach the vicinity on one tank of gas, others can equally easily get there. If you require more gas your chances will diminish with each petrol station you stop at.

Of course I have no idea of the surroundings where you have your cache, but the greatest weakness in your plan seems to me that you are all alone and your escape plan seems to aim at months of survival instead of years. There is security in numbers (what if you fall ill or hurt yourself?), but a balance must be found between the resources that are available (locally, grown, or hunted, or transported by group members to the hide out). As it is, you are likely to be outnumbered (and, in the US, outgunned) by any other survivors you might run into. The weight-usefulness ratio of books is not so good when you travel by bike or on foot, but you can of course always use them for toilet paper.

The thing your stash lacks is a fuel supply (cords of firewood), it takes long to build up a pile of weathered firewood, especially if you're alone, vitamines and agricultural equipment (without fresh greens or vitamine supplements you are unlikely to stay healthy during the winter, especially in the mountains). You could carry for example an amount of alfalfa or soy seeds and let a handful sprout at a time so that you have a steady supply of fresh sprouts to augment your diet.

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talk72000 wrote:

The US Navy operates in all the oceans of the world. They are present in the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific. If the vessels are in a harbor that is shielded from the tsunamis i.e. it is not facing the force of the pressure waves the vessels would be more or less be okay depending on the size of the tsunamis.

I have to pay more attention to your posts talk7200. Some tells me you know more then your modest text reveals.

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talk72000 wrote:

If the vessels are in a harbor that is shielded from the tsunamis i.e. it is not facing the force of the pressure waves the vessels would be more or less be okay depending on the size of the tsunamis.

The tsunamis generated by a large meteor strike are expected to be so powerful that no coastal installation can be expected to withstand a direct hit. For example, the pressure wave would be so big that it would simply wash over Florida. On the West Coast (which is in the direct line of fire in my scenario) the water would be pushed inland over distances up to dozens of miles (depending on the elevation of the terrain). The force behind it would carry and crush any type of ship (For example, the relatively minor boxing day tsunami dumped two Thai naval patrol boats more than a kilometer inland at Khao Lak). In my scenario the US navy has wisely removed all major units from the Pacific to the relative safety of the Mexican Gulf, but of course they will not have a simple return because the Pacific locks of the Panama canal will be destroyed. Wise governments will have ordered their navies out onto the open sea, where they will stand the best chance of survival (so that they will remain available for rescue efforts after the strike and its immediate effects).

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farmerman wrote:

Ive been working away from homebase for the last week so Im just catching up on threads.
There was a book by Neville Shutte that I read as a little kid . It was called "On the BEach" The scenario wasnt much different in that a nuclear sub had the capability to survive a nuclear war but the radiation began moving in a manner that (although we now know was counter to what Shutte wrote) left the world a radiation wasteland and everyone died. The sub could still travel around till it ran out of fuel and food.

I saw the film based on the book. It was very eerie and depressing, but as in many other disasters, the last emotions of man were not of hate, but of love.

Incidentally, have you, as a geologist, any tips as to where survivors should look for water sources (i.e. where in a landscape they should drill to have the best chance of striking water) if there are no permanent sources of surface water.

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Paaskynen wrote:

Amigo wrote:
So what do you think? will I make it?????

Hi Amigo,

It all depends on when and where you go and what emergency you face. If you leave before the general public becomes aware of an impending disaster your chances of reaching your destination are good.

If you leave when numerous others also see the writing on the wall it becomes all the more hazardous. How far away is your retreat? If you can reach the vicinity on one tank of gas, others can equally easily get there. If you require more gas your chances will diminish with each petrol station you stop at.

Of course I have no idea of the surroundings where you have your cache, but the greatest weakness in your plan seems to me that you are all alone and your escape plan seems to aim at months of survival instead of years. There is security in numbers (what if you fall ill or hurt yourself?), but a balance must be found between the resources that are available (locally, grown, or hunted, or transported by group members to the hide out). As it is, you are likely to be outnumbered (and, in the US, outgunned) by any other survivors you might run into. The weight-usefulness ratio of books is not so good when you travel by bike or on foot, but you can of course always use them for toilet paper.

The thing your stash lacks is a fuel supply (cords of firewood), it takes long to build up a pile of weathered firewood, especially if you're alone, vitamines and agricultural equipment (without fresh greens or vitamine supplements you are unlikely to stay healthy during the winter, especially in the mountains). You could carry for example an amount of alfalfa or soy seeds and let a handful sprout at a time so that you have a steady supply of fresh sprouts to augment your diet.

Yes I would try and leave before a panic or quaretine set in. I know back roads almost all the way there and yes on one tank of gas no stops. Navigating and knowlegde of negotiating living in the wilderness will automatcally eliminate 90 percent of the population that might be headed for easily more excessable destination of wondering masses. I will be literally in the middle of nowhere exessable only by a skilled hiker by a water source. The freezing alone will eliminate any compitition and cause people to overlook the bounty of advatages and natural resources. If I have to go in the midle of winter I will have what I need to survive that winter. The coming summer will be a cinch in which I will get ready for next winter (meat preservative). Remember I will have the advatage of clothing made modern manmade mateials to keep me warm I wont need so much firewood. Perhaps a propane heater for the first winter. I don't want a large camp with alot of people I think that is more dangerous. My supplies are for six months of survival to prepare for the next year of survival and so on but after one or two years I will come back down after populations have killed eachother off and cash in some gold and re-asimilate into society.

I will mearly sit out the self correcting stage like say two million starving Zombies converging on a one redneck with fifty assault riffles at witch point after the zombies kill the redneck the'll start killing eachother.

When the poulation lowers itself to a point were people aren't kill eachother over resources maby I could come back down. I don't think gold will go away as a commodity At least thats what I have come up with.

Yes you are right. I forgot to mention seeds and vitamins. Corn, tomato soy, pumpkin, What ever etc,etc. Also growing food will atract small and large game.

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http://www.deborahbrosnan.com/wp-content/fivemilesinland.jpg

I found this image of one of the naval patrol boats I mentioned earlier. It is now a monument and lies over a mile inland from Khao Lak (not 5 km as the maker of this pic claims). The boats were guarding a member of the Thai Royal family who was jetskiing offshore. (He perished, but his mother survived on the roof of her hotel.) Tsunamis generated by a meteor strike in the ocean would be many magnitudes more powerful than this.

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Asteroid IMPACT, a WHAT IF thread

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