5 Congress Members Arrested at Sudan Protest

BernardR wrote:

It is interesting that the left wing in the USA has muted its protests about the killers in Darfur

Huh? Look back to the news item this thread started with to see who's making the noise about Darfur. The Dems are there, in the front ranks, right alongside religious conservatives.

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I didn't know that the dems are the "left wing"!!!

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BernardR wrote:

I didn't know that the dems are the "left wing"!!!

Um. Have you read up on American politics lately? Say in the past, oh seventy years or so? Do you understand what is meant by "left wing"?
Have you ever heard of anyone being referred to as a Right-wing Democrat? Even Joe Lieberman?

This may help.

Joe(I know. You were joking)Nation

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Bottom line, folks - what was true in 1934 is still true today. When social abuses toward citizens of any country are being conducted by their own government, or a faction tolerated by that government, there are only two possible solutions. first, the country's government must change its policies to stop the injustice, or outside forces must change the government itself. I have no idea how the first goal could be accomplished, but i seriously doubt that non-violent protests in foreign countries will have any great effect. Secondly, I don't see a lot of other governments lining up for invasion plans. And, if they do, I can guarantee that there will be massive protests if THAT happens.

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I do not trust any items posted in Wikipedia since almost anyone can contribute to that "encyclopedia".

I rather would trust the New Political Dictionary compiled by William Safire.

Mr. Safire says:

quote

"One on the left is called RED, pink, PINKO, commie, bombthrower, COMNSYMP, FELLOW TRAVELER, AND ultraleft.

One on the right is called RADICAL RIGHT, DIEHARD, MOSSBACK, Bourbon, Bitterender, ultrarightest, OLD FOGY, standpatterm LITTLE OLD LADIES IN TENNIS SHOES, and TROGLODYTIC.

CENTRISTS AND MODERATES ARE

ON THE FENCE, STRADDLERS, MIDDLE OF THE ROADERS, OPPORTUNISTS, and all things to all men, although they claim to be the MAINSTREAM."

end of quote. CAPS from Safire.

Again, I didn't know the Dems were the "left wing"! I am certain that some of them describe themselves as centrists and moderates.

Would you like to see some of the quotes from Democrats who descibe themselves as centrists and moderates.

Again, I did not know that all Democrats were left wing!!!!

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Yes. Cowdoc. I agree with you. Social abuses as you term them are quite vexing. I am, fortunately or unfortunately, so far gone in materialism that when I received my financial report which reflected the first quarter of 2006, I could really not focus on any social abuses but rather shared a drink with my wife at the several thousand dollars we have made in the first quarter from those investments.

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BernardR wrote:

Again, I didn't know the Dems were the "left wing"! I am certain that some of them describe themselves as centrists and moderates.

Would you like to see some of the quotes from Democrats who descibe themselves as centrists and moderates.

Again, I did not know that all Democrats were left wing!!!!

OK, fair enough Bernard. I'd actually be pretty loathe myself to call many of the Democrat officeholder left-wing; they are indeed more like centrists. So: you win. Point granted.

Now, though: who are those left-wingers, then, who have purportedly "muted their protests about the killers in Darfur"?

I do try to keep up with the news, but I havent seen any leftwinger try to play down the Darfur genocide, at all. If anything (though, to be fair, the religious right has done a good job on raising awareness about Darfur as well), such downplayers are to be found on the conservative side of the political spectre, among the realpolitik'ers and the isolationists.

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The New Republic this week (or rather, next week) has a special issue on Darfur.

Quote:

The Editors: Again

Never again? What nonsense. Again and again is more like it. In Darfur, we are witnessing a genocide again, and again we are witnessing ourselves witnessing it and doing nothing to stop it. Even people who wish to know about the problem do not wish to know about the solution. They prefer the raising of consciousness to the raising of troops. Just as Rwanda made a bleak mockery of the lessons of Bosnia, Darfur is making a bleak mockery of the lessons of Rwanda. Some lessons, it seems, are gladly and regularly unlearned. Except, of course, by the perpetrators of this evil, who learn the only really enduring lessons about genocide in our time: that the Western response to it is late in coming, or is not coming at all.

There is no point in caring about a problem unless you care about its solution. The only way to stop genocide in Darfur is for the United States and its Western allies to use force.

FROM TNR'S MAY 15 ISSUE

Words Fail by Andrew B. Loewenstein
The U.N.'s curious refusal to call genocide genocide.

The Trial by Mudawi Ibrahim Adam
Inside a Sudanese prison.

The Void by Samantha Power
The real problem with Darfur: Iraq.

Next Casualty by Eric Reeves
Why Darfur's misery has just begun.

A Very Long Engagement by Marisa Katz
Bush channels Neville Chamberlain.

An Imperialist Indifference by Richard Just
By not intervening in Darfur, Americans are behaving like colonialists.

SPECIAL FEATURES

Darfur 101 by Eric Reeves
All of your Darfur questions answered.

Q&A: Jan Egeland by Rob Anderson
TNR Online talks to the U.N. undersecretary-general for humanitarian affairs.

FROM THE ARCHIVES

Find the links to all the below articles (and more) on the TNR Darfur page

Crisis Intervention by Lawrence F. Kaplan
Post date 04.24.06
If Iraq was wrong, is Darfur right?

Cruel Intentions by Eric Reeves
Post date 04.04.06
Egypt's pernicious role in Sudan's genocide.

Student Aid by Jason Zengerle
Post date 03.14.06
How a bunch of college kids did more than their government to stop the Darfur genocide.

Block Aid by Eric Reeves
Post date 03.13.06
Two developments that will accelerate the Darfur genocide.

Political Persuasion by Eric Reeves
Post date 03.08.06
Bush, NATO, and Darfur.

The Opportunity by the Editors
Post date 03.03.06
A chance to save Darfur.

Area of Interest by James Forsyth
Post date 03.01.06
Realism and Darfur.

Wishful Thinking by Eric Reeves
Post date 02.09.06
Why the State Department wants you to think the Darfur genocide is over.

Host of Problems by Eric Reeves
Post date 12.29.05
Accessories to genocide.

Low Pressure by Marisa Katz
Post date 12.29.05
Obama and Brownback show how not to halt a genocide.

Now or Never by Eric Reeves
Post date 11.28.05
Now or never in Darfur.

Blind Spot by Richard Just
Post date 11.04.05
Why won't liberals push for intervention in Darfur?

All Quiet by Eric Reeves
Post date 10.27.05
Increasingly, America seems content to appease Sudan.

False Positive by Eric Reeves
Post date 09.26.05
Western officials say African Union troops are doing a great job in Darfur. Too bad that isn't true.

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NIMH, You are an honest person. I respect your ability to see that Democrats can not all be labeled "left wing"( a truly idiotic position).

But, then, who are the "left wing" who are hypocritical about Darfur?

A New York Sun Editorial on May 5, 2006, opined that there is the "hypocrasy of those on the left who want action to oppose a genocidal regime in the Sudan ...yet they opposed military action to oust a regime that had engage in ethnic cleansing of Iraqi Kurds and Shiites and had rained missles on Israeli cities. It was noted that the Reverend Sharpton was engaged in a march in New York on Saturday protesting the US involvement in Iraq and a subsequent march on Sunday in Washington DC to urge US involvement in Darfur.

I am awaiting the spectacle of Kofi Annan on horseback at the head of the UN contingent liberating the victims in the Sudan.

Why, if the UN can't help in this kind of crisis, what good are they?

(Please omit any references to Oil for Food)

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BernardR wrote:

But, then, who are the "left wing" who are hypocritical about Darfur?

A New York Sun Editorial on May 5, 2006, opined that there is the "hypocrasy of those on the left who want action to oppose a genocidal regime in the Sudan ...yet they opposed military action to oust a regime that had engage in ethnic cleansing of Iraqi Kurds and Shiites and had rained missles on Israeli cities. It was noted that the Reverend Sharpton was engaged in a march in New York on Saturday protesting the US involvement in Iraq and a subsequent march on Sunday in Washington DC to urge US involvement in Darfur.

OK, wait.

Lemme check if I got this right.

Your initial point was that "the left wing in the USA has muted its protests about the killers in Darfur".

I ask you for an example of which leftwingers you're talking about who purportedly muted their protests, and you quote a complaint about how leftwingers like Sharpton did protest about those killers in Darfur?

BernardR wrote:

Why, if the UN can't help in this kind of crisis, what good are they?

Again, the UN doesnt have troops of its own, and if anyone were ever to propose a standing army for the UN, you and GWB would be the first to express outrage at the very idea. The grand total of UN expenditures is equivalent to about four times the budget of the NYPD.

Ergo, the UN, for interventions anywhere in the world, depends on its member states, and particularly the permanent Security Council members, to authorize the action and supply troops.

That places the burden of responsibility on, in particular, the US, UK, France, Russia and China. Since the latter two will never spontaneously propose taking action against a dictatorship, it's up, basically, to the NATO countries.

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I heard George Clooney offered to go over there and kick some ass. Like in his movies, ya know?

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SierraSong wrote:

I heard George Clooney offered to go over there and kick some ass. Like in his movies, ya know?

I suppose the above post served to express your distaste for Clooney, because it certainly doesn'treflect anything in reality. Clooney is an actor whose gifts for acting I don't really appreciate, but he has been an effective high profile spokesman promoting the cause of US action in Darfur.

...and if it was just your way of making a joke, it was stupid and inappropriate since we're talking about the mass murder of hundreds of thousands.

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LOL. No wonder you're so fricken pissed off all the time. I would be too if I had to rely on mental giants like George Clooney to find out what's going on in the world.

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Just how big an ass are you, sierra? I don't "need" Clooney to tell me what's happening anywhere. But he's done good work to rabble rouse for a good cause. Are you stupid, or just ignorant?

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snood wrote:

Just how big an ass are you, sierra? I don't "need" Clooney to tell me what's happening anywhere. But he's done good work to rabble rouse for a good cause. Are you stupid, or just ignorant?

In addition to Clooney, I bet you listen to Bill Maher for cultural direction and Jerry Springer for race issues. You probably also drool alot and wear Depends....more reasons for your out-of-control anger LOL.

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SierraSong wrote:

snood wrote:
Just how big an ass are you, sierra? I don't "need" Clooney to tell me what's happening anywhere. But he's done good work to rabble rouse for a good cause. Are you stupid, or just ignorant?

In addition to Clooney, I bet you listen to Bill Maher for cultural direction and Jerry Springer for race issues. You probably also drool alot and wear Depends....more reasons for your out-of-control anger LOL.

Oooooh, good one. Man, I'm sure put in my place now, and know better ever to cross intellectual swords with the formidable likes of you, by gosh.....

so, tell us, Sierra - what's your opinion about the amount of action the US should take, vis-a-vis the genocide in Darfur?

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Apparently, he doesnt give a f*ck.

Apparently, mass murder is something to be flippant about.

When it's in Africa.

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A New York Sun Editorial on May 5, 2006, opined that there is the "hypocrasy of those on the left who want action to oppose a genocidal regime in the Sudan ...yet they opposed military action to oust a regime that had engage in ethnic cleansing of Iraqi Kurds and Shiites and had rained missles on Israeli cities. It was noted that the Reverend Sharpton was engaged in a march in New York on Saturday protesting the US involvement in Iraq and a subsequent march on Sunday in Washington DC to urge US involvement in Darfur.

I am awaiting the spectacle of Kofi Annan on horseback at the head of the UN contingent liberating the victims in the Sudan.

Why, if the UN can't help in this kind of crisis, what good are they?

(Please omit any references to Oil for Food)

The idea that the UN could not, when properly outraged by the kind of horrible genocide that is going on in the Sudan, immediately cause the NATO and the Security council to send troops forthwith, is ludicrous on its face. The representatives of some of the tin pot dictators who sit in the UN obviously don't care enough about the genocide in the Sudan to demand an immediate military response.

We saw their anger fully expressed when Saddam indulged in documented genocide.

The UN is a paper tiger filled with crooks like Kofi Annan who have profited from schemes like Oil for Food.

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snood wrote:

SierraSong wrote:
snood wrote:
Just how big an ass are you, sierra? I don't "need" Clooney to tell me what's happening anywhere. But he's done good work to rabble rouse for a good cause. Are you stupid, or just ignorant?

In addition to Clooney, I bet you listen to Bill Maher for cultural direction and Jerry Springer for race issues. You probably also drool alot and wear Depends....more reasons for your out-of-control anger LOL.

Oooooh, good one. Man, I'm sure put in my place now, and know better ever to cross intellectual swords with the formidable likes of you, by gosh.....

so, tell us, Sierra - what's your opinion about the amount of action the US should take, vis-a-vis the genocide in Darfur?

LOL Snood, I look at any dialogue with you on any subject as a waste of time. Temper tantrums have obviously served you (and Clooney for that matter) well in the past, but go stamp your feet and make your demands elsewhere.

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nimh wrote:

Apparently, he doesnt give a f*ck.

Apparently, mass murder is something to be flippant about.

When it's in Africa.

Um, what? George Clooney is using Darfur as his personal wankfest and you want to spin it to suit whatever agenda suits you? Do you think the braniac Clooney even knows who is responsible for the genocide and what ideology motivates them?

Or is this just another way you've figured out to show your anti-war, anti-American ass on yet another message board?

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5 Congress Members Arrested at Sudan Protest

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