ALLELUJA!!

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Queen of Heaven, Rejoice!

Alleluja!

For He Whom you did merit to bear,

Alleluja!

HAS RISEN AS HE SAID!!

Alleluja!

Pray For us to God

Alleluja!

Rejoice and Be Glad, Oh Virgin Mary!

Alleluja!

For The Lord is Risen indeed!

Alleluja!

this is a very ancient prayer of thanksgiving and rejoicing at eastertime and can be traced back to the thelfth century. it is a translation of the latin:

Regina coeli, laetare!

Alleluia!

Quia quem meruisti portare,

Alleluia!

RESURREXIT SICUT DIXIT!!

Alleluia!

Ora pro nobis Deum

Alleluia!

Gaude et laetare, Virgo Maria!

Alleluia!

Quia surrexit Dominus vere!

Alleluia!

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Yes, the polytheistic nature of catholicism is fairly obvious to anyone that looks.

Pointing that out was your intent here, right?

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Did he see his shadow?

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perhaps some salt over the left shoulder is called for?

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Queen of heaven: wasn't that the title reserved for Semiramis? Or did she become Ashtoreth?

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Hey Peter ! ! !

I can see your house from up here ! ! !

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Mornin' Set.

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Mornin' Boss, how's celestical and exegetical tricks today?

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Just fryin' the bacon. It's early here in Seattle.

Edited to add:

'Course I just noticed Dok has been up for hours & he lives just a few clicks north of me.

OH; I forgot; he can't come out in the daylight. Laughing

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Doktor S wrote:

Yes, the polytheistic nature of catholicism is fairly obvious to anyone that looks.

Pointing that out was your intent here, right?

polytheistic?? obvious?? erm... no. Actually teaching is that Our Blessed Lady is 'lower ranking' if you like than Christ Himself. in the Regina Coeli, we ask Our Lady to "Pray for us to God". in the litanies, we pray God to "have mercy on us" whereas we beg Our Lady to "Pray for us" In the psalms as well as in Catholic theology, Our Lady is seen as the moon, merely reflecting the light of the sun, her Son.

"And God made two great lights: a greater light to rule the day; and a lesser light to rule the night:" -- Genesis

The reasons are endless. If you are refering to the Blessed Trinity, that has always been acknoledged as a mystery. Three persons in one Godhead. There is a story which says that St Augustine was walkinig along the beach, pondering and trying to understand the Blessed Trinity and he saw a boy, attempting to fill a hole in the sand, with water. He told the boy he was foolish because it couldnt be done. according to the story; the boy turned and told Augustine that he was more the fool, for thinking that he could understand the Trinity.

As for my 'intent' it was to share my rejoising, and spread the good news, i did not wish to get into an argument. Although i knew it was a possibility, posting in a debate forum.

yours in Domine
Nick

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You misspelled "rejoicing" . . . I'm sure Joyce won't be happy about that . . .

I don't care if it is your last supper . . . no ID, no wine.

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neologist wrote:

Queen of heaven: wasn't that the title reserved for Semiramis? Or did she become Ashtoreth?

I dont really know what Semiramis or Ashtoreth are. but i looked them up and it seems to me that they were pagan gods or godesses. Ashtoreth interestingly seems to have been moon godess of the Phoenicians (see my earlier post)
Many pagan ideas were dealt with by Christianity, by Christianity simply making it Christian. such as Christmas:

Quote:

December 25 was a significant date for various early cultures. The ancient Babylonians believed the son of the queen of heaven was born on December 25. The Egyptians celebrated the birth of the son of the fertility goddess Isis on the same date, while ancient Arabs contended that the moon was born on December 24.

The Romans celebrated Saturnalia, a feast named for Saturn, god of agriculture, on December 21, the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere. They believed the shortest day of the year was the birthday of the sun. The Roman emperor Constantine was a member of the sun-cult before converting to Christianity in 312.

Some scholars suspect that Christians chose to celebrate Christ's birth on December 25 to make it easier to convert the pagan tribes. Referring to Jesus as the "light of the world" also fit with existing pagan beliefs about the birth of the sun. The ancient "return of the sun" philosophy had been replaced by the "coming of the son" message of Christianity.

Source

The title Queen of Heaven, may have come into use in order to 'christian-ise' the term. also perhaps, as a means of conversion.

Catholic theology teaches that Our Lady did not die, she was taken up 'body and soul' into heaven. There she is crowned; Queen of all the Angels and Saints, Queen of Heaven and earth (and obviously all things on the earth), Queen of everything.

Yours in Jesus and Mary
Nick

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You may rename Pluto Water Perrier. It'll still give you the runs

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Quote:

Actually teaching is that Our Blessed Lady is 'lower ranking' if you like than Christ Himself.

Yes exactly, all polytheistic pantheons have heirachies.

Quote:

Our Lady is seen as the moon, merely reflecting the light of the sun, her Son.

How very pagan.

Quote:

"And God made two great lights: a greater light to rule the day; and a lesser light to rule the night:" -- Genesis

if exegesis-ified(tm) to mean the day-light is christ and the night-light is mary, that passage carries serious polytheistic intonations.

Quote:

The reasons are endless. If you are refering to the Blessed Trinity, that has always been acknoledged as a mystery. Three persons in one Godhead.

No, I was actually refering to catholic mary/saint worship, as you exemplified with your opening post.
Trinitarian god is polytheism too, but I was refering to the wider pantheon of catholic polytheism in general.

Quote:

As for my 'intent' it was to share my rejoising, and spread the good news, i did not wish to get into an argument. Although i knew it was a possibility, posting in a debate forum.

I don't argue, I educate.

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I am afraid that my response will require me to quote you quoting me - which can be very tedious.

Doktor S wrote:

Quote:
Actually teaching is that Our Blessed Lady is 'lower ranking' if you like than Christ Himself.

Yes exactly, all polytheistic pantheons have heirachies.

Ok, let us look at this word: polytheistic.It comes for the greek poly meaning many, and theoi meaning gods. So it literaly means many gods

The Nicene Creed, written in the 4th century AD; in an attempt to unify the Christian Church under Emperor Constontine, clearly states, as its opening statement: "I believe in one God"

There is indeed a hierarchy, but not a hierarchy of gods! There is only one God.

Doktor S wrote:

Quote:
Our Lady is seen as the moon, merely reflecting the light of the sun, her Son.

How very pagan.

It's an analogy. Probably used for the primative uneducated people. The point of it, is to show us that, she does not give us graces by herself. But God gives us graces through her. Indeed, one of her many titles is: Mediatrix of All Graces

Doktor S wrote:

I was actually refering to catholic mary/saint worship, as you exemplified with your opening post.
Trinitarian god is polytheism too, but I was refering to the wider pantheon of catholic polytheism in general.

We do not 'worship' Our Lady and the Saints as i have already explained.
The saints, who lived upon earth - had to go through life, just the same as us. The only thing is they did it well. They made use of the opportunities given to them. they were not chosen at birth.
I presume you are familiar with the concept of Original Sin. the saints were not born free from it. Even the Angels were tested and many fell through the sin of pride. one exeption is Our Blessed Lady, Who was born free from original sin. However, She still lived with the temptations of the earth.

"The four and twenty ancients fell down before him that sitteth on the throne and adored him that liveth for ever and ever and cast their crowns before the throne" -- Apocolypse (or Revelation) 4:10

This passage shows Saints, praying to God.

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neologist wrote:

You may rename Pluto Water Perrier. It'll still give you the runs

You seem to have mis-understood my earlier post. The pagan feasts/terms/gods were not merely 'renamed' they were replaced.

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We understood ya just fine, Bubba, we just ain't buying your dog and pony show . . .

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Horse and pony show? I have been speaking from Catholic dogma and tradition. The Catholic Church just happens to be the joint largest religious body in the world. (joint with sunni islam, as a matter of intrest)

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Dog and pony show . . .

. . . and speaking of dog, you wrote: ". . . Catholic dogma and tradition." That's what the respondants here are not buying, the dogma. The comment about the number of suckers who do buy that dog and pony show is meaningless, it is yet another example of the fallacy argumentum ad populum.

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Dog*

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ALLELUJA!!

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