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Do Creationists Believe in Genes?

 
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 11:39 am
Lightwizard wrote:
If God supposedly created us, it was obviously by the description in Genesis from nothing. It always astonishes me that people believe this entity waved a magic wand, some Tinkerbell dust flew out into the universe and Voila!, we have Earth, the planets, the Milky Way and the countless galaxies astronomers are still detecting through increasingly more powerful telescopes. It can't be explained to them that this isn't much different than the childhood belief that Santa Clause shimmies down one's chimeny and desposits presents under the tree, or the tooth fairy removes one's lost tooth from under their pillow and leaves money. Sorry, but I never fell for any of that. DNA is not superstition, it's a scientific fact. It is also a specific mechanism in evolution. Those who can't see the forest for the trees -- look out, your forest is on fire and you don't have enough water to quell progress.


I have got news for you... Science also believes the universe came from nothing... It is called the event horizon... And Santa Clause I am sure is lurking somewhere there too...

But science does not have a God to have started it all off, that is even more silly... At least Christianity believes there was an intelligence before total emptiness... Better than there was "nothing" before the Big Bang as current scientific theories propose... So who is being logical here?
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 11:51 am
I should have copied the quote I was replying to:

golf97 wrote:
I don't believe that we evolved from nothing into something by physiological means, because physiologically it can't make sense.


Science does not believe the universe was created from nothing. If you become well read about cosmotology which is a complex subject, you would know that. It probably has something to do with the impossible semantics involved in defining the word "nothing." It's difficult to comprehend, just as infinity is difficult to comprehend. The person's post reveals he actually knows nothing about physiology or biology. Life was not created out of nothing -- it sprang out of what already was there in inorganic chemicals and matter.
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 11:54 am
RexRed wrote:
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Wolf, thanks for your info, it was very interesting. I am generally interested in most peoples opinions...


¬_¬ I don't know how to respond to that. My statement clearly wasn't an opinion, so I'm wondering should I take your post as a sign of sarcasm? Hm...


You also don't know how to take a compliment...


Sometimes it's hard to tell whether compliments are sincere or not on the Internet, especially when people (like me) forget to put the appropriate smilies in their post. I apologise for offending you.

RexRed wrote:
I have got news for you... Science also believes the universe came from nothing... It is called the event horizon... And Santa Clause I am sure is lurking somewhere there too...

But science does not have a God to have started it all off, that is even more silly... At least Christianity believes there was an intelligence before total emptiness... Better than there was "nothing" before the Big Bang as current scientific theories propose... So who is being logical here?


Erm... Actually, scientists don't know what was there before the Universe. Still, the argument of God always existing is no more silly than the argument of the Universe having always existed (known as Steady State).

After all, if we look solely at our world, you'd think that being stationary is the norm for inanimate objects. However, in actual fact, moving is the norm for inanimate objects.

The only reason you don't see a wheelbarrow moving, is because it is moving downwards and the ground is preventing it from moving.

Don't forget that on the quantum level, electrons can go through two different slits at the same time. This defies "common sense", but on the quantum level it is perfectly natural.

Who is to say that everything has to be created? After all, the Third Law of Thermodynamics states that nothing is created or destroyed, merely changed from one form to another.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 12:00 pm
I think RexRed drew his whole statement out of nothing. Very Happy

Trying to understand matter against anti-matter is too difficult for the majority of people. Having been close to many Cal Tech students and professors during my college days, which also involved a membership in The Pacific Rocket Society, it didn't take long for an epiphany. Funny thing about that is I was in a relationship with an Episcopalean Priest at the time. Life is complicated.
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Redeemed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 06:20 pm
I wrote on page 1:

Quote:
All creationists that I know of believe in the existence of genes/DNA/etc. I never considered genetics to be an evolutionary concept (genetic theories are involved in the theory of evolution).


To which Lightwizard replied:

Quote:
I guess genetics can't be one of the mechanisms of evolution.


(Which she later declared to be sarcastic.)

I wasn't very clear in my statement... what I meant was that concepts, theories, and facts established in the study of genetics can stand apart from the theory of evolution. Genetics do play a crucial role in the theory of evolution, but genetics also stands alone as its own study/discipline.

My original point was basically an expression of confusion at the author's question. I don't understand why the existence of genes automatically disproves the intelligent design position. After all, the existence of genes doesn't prove that they mutate in the way that macroevolution requires.

Hmm... I'm hoping that that is a little clearer. Maybe not -- it's been a long week (and it's only Wednesday Rolling Eyes ).

*Note: edited to correct grammar mistake.*
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 06:33 pm
Lightwizard.
Quote:

Science does not believe the universe was created from nothing.

Science does not believe anything whatsoever.
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 06:34 pm
Wolf
Quote:

Erm... Actually, scientists don't know what was there before the Universe. Still, the argument of God always existing is no more silly than the argument of the Universe having always existed (known as Steady State).

Only until such time as occams razor is employed.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 06:35 pm
Life would not evolve from nothing; simple physics and logic.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 07:21 pm
Correct, I didn't mean to use "believe" in that context, especially since most think of the definition is primarily religious beliefs. Consult a dictionary and you will also find other definitions including "to think." Calling attention to the minor details in order to ignore the big picture is a fool's debate. Scientists do not think that the universe was formed from nothingness. Every year as more observations of the cosmos reveals more evidence, scientists are getting closer and closer to what form of energy, like plasma as an example, would have been present and that it exploded and expanded to create the universe. If one wants to believe that the universe has "walls" and outside those walls is a beared male manipulating everything, that's their bag -- certainly not mine.
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Pauligirl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 09:19 pm
RexRed wrote:
I have got news for you... Science also believes the universe came from nothing... It is called the event horizon... And Santa Clause I am sure is lurking somewhere there too...

But science does not have a God to have started it all off, that is even more silly... At least Christianity believes there was an intelligence before total emptiness... Better than there was "nothing" before the Big Bang as current scientific theories propose... So who is being logical here?


I thought an event horizon was the outer edge of a black hole...not where the universe came from.

P
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2006 09:38 pm
I was going to give him a pass on that -- didn't want to barrage him with too many black holes in his religious beliefs. The event horizon is the gravity field of a black hole where the space-time is so bent that light cannot escape it. People -- this is not a classroom. Go and read up on what you are questioning, otherwise it just looks like you are barfing ideas into the forum.
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agrote
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2006 01:33 pm
Redeemed wrote:
My original point was basically an expression of confusion at the author's question. I don't understand why the existence of genes automatically disproves the intelligent design position. After all, the existence of genes doesn't prove that they mutate in the way that macroevolution requires.


I didn't mean to suggest that genetics disproves anything. I literally wanted to know whether or not creationists tend to believe at least in genes, if not in the theory of evolution. I also wanted to know specifically which bits of evolutionary theory creationists have a problem with.

I'm guessing it's random mutation that you don't believe in, right? Would most creationists agree with you on that?
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