Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 02:34 pm
I like these sentences and share with you.

''It is the requirement of dominion and rulership not to accept rivals; they reject partnership; they repudiate interference. It is because of this that if there are two headmen in a village, they will destroy its tranquillity and order.

Or if there are two chief officials in a district, or two governors in a province, they will cause chaos.

Or if there are two kings in a country, they will cause complete and stormy confusion. Since a pale shadow and petty example of dominion and rulership in impotent human beings needy for assistance does not accept the interference of rivals, opponents, or peers, then you may compare how fully a rulership which is in the form of absolute sovereignty and a dominion at the degree of dominicality will enforce that law of the rejection of interference in One Possessing Absolute Power.

That is to say, the most definite and constant necessity of Godhead and dominicality are unity and singleness. The clear proof and certain testimony to this are the perfect order and beautiful harmony in the universe.'' BSN
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 03:29 pm
And what kind of order and harmony would we have if we had hundreds of Christian Gods?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 05:16 pm
This joker is just puking up something that he has lifted from some religious snake oil salesman. There is no point in attempting to engage him in discussion.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 05:49 pm
Agreed !

This is an argument for "benign dictatorship".

Historical events and the phenonenon of hypnosis show that most humans have a propensity for such follies.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 06:31 pm
He lifted it off this Muslim site.

http://www.nur.web.tr/icsayfaigz.php?action=baslik&lang=2&id=308

http://www.nur.web.tr/index.php?lang=2
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 07:08 pm
Kev, you can see from the responses that most folks would rather find out what YOU have to say, even though you may have trouble with the language.

Give it a try. I, at least will be patient. It will help you learn to think in English.
0 Replies
 
kevnmoon
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2006 12:07 am
Thanks for all replies.. Xingu says true.. Yes it is so so easy to find in internet. Lol.. Everything is open in the world..
0 Replies
 
kevnmoon
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2006 01:23 pm
I read them from orginal books than I find same passages from English digital file which downloaded from internet and share with you..But I saw this link for the first time. Thanks xingu.. Very well site. Thanks again..
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 05:34 am
Question: Is it just me or are all the monotheistic religions merely a cynical attempt by some ruler to consolidate power?

I remember Israel Finkelstein making an argument that it was possible that the monotheistic religion of Judaism was an attempt by King Josiah (living approx. 7th Century BC) to consolidate power through religious reforms and creating a new cultural identity.

Even the Ancient Egyptian monotheistic religion of Atum, could have been seen as an attempt by Akenatum (is that how his name is spelt?) to help consolidate power and justify his rule.

Jesus preached, definitely, but he could be argued to be a revolutionary that tried to gather a powerful base of followers to help in throwing the Romans out of Judea.

Not sure about Mohammed.

It is strange, though, that the majority of monotheistic religions, if not all, were involved in some kind of power struggle, as opposed to polytheistic religions, which don't seem to be involved in any power struggles at all.

Just in case you can't figure it out, this is merely an attempt to stir up some debate and perhaps some controversy while I'm at it. Yes, I'm rocking the boat.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 08:08 am
Here is an article written by Dr. Boeree a professor in the Psychology Dept., Shippensburg University.

A
Quote:
Brief History of Judaism
Dr. C. George Boeree
http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/judaism.html

Palestine1 was a fertile area, warm and watered by Mediterranean rains -- a most desirable location. It lay between the sophisticated societies of Egypt and Mesopotamia, making it an ideal location for trade and, of course, war.

Tradition has it that the Hebrews came with father Abraham from Ur in Mesopotamia around 2000 bc, along with Abraham's El Shaddai ("god of the mountain"). It is more likely that they were natives to the area just to the east and conquered their close relatives the Canaanites2 to establish their historical domain. Constant warfare with neighboring peoples apparently resulted in a large number of Hebrews being enslaved by the Egyptians, which sets the stage for the singular event of Jewish history, the Exodus.

Moses, probably an Egyptian, assisted the captive Hebrew population in its hour of need, possibly by introducing Egyptian cleanliness laws in a time of plague. Around 1300 bc, he led them, it is said, back into Palestine, where they would be of enormous influence on their settled brethren.

The Hebrews organized themselves into 12 tribes, with warrior-priest chieftains, referred to in the Bible as Judges. Intertribal wars led them to seek a monarch similar to the ones they had observed in Egypt and Mesopotamia. In about 1010 bc, they found that monarch in a ruthless warlord named Saul.

Only four years later, his seat was taken by David. After defeating the Philistines -- the "Sea People" (possibly early Greeks) who had settled the coast -- he established Jerusalem as his capital.

In 966 bc, David was succeeded by Solomon. Under his rule, the Hebrews became rich, investing in the trade between Phoenicia and Egypt, as well as in sea routes to Arabia and east Africa. Solomon had a temple built in Jerusalem to contain the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark was a gold-covered wooden box that presumably contained the tablets of the Law that Moses received from God Himself at Mt. Sinai. It was the most sacred symbol of Yahweh, and was believed to give the Hebrews power over their enemies.

The Hebrews were originally polytheistic, even animistic. They believed in spirits and, as pastoralists, were particularly devoted to cults of the bull, the sheep, and so on. Animal sacrifice was the tradition, mostly at local altars and wilderness sites. They performed divination using dice, something which they would continue to do for many centuries.

It should be noted that much of Genesis consists of the common myths of the region (and many other regions), such as the creation story, the fall of man, the flood, and so on.

Yahweh, possibly the Canaanite god Yehu or Yaw, became the "national" god of the Hebrews. With Solomon and the Temple, he was made into the greatest god of all. He retained, as the Bible demonstrates profusely, very human characteristics: Jealousy, regret, anger, love of the scent of burnt offerings, and openness to bribery were among his qualities.

Early beliefs did not involve the concept of hell as we now know it. There was instead Sheol, a land of darkness beneath the ground. But, like Hades among the Greeks and Hel among the Germans, it was home to nearly all who died, not just those who sinned. Unpleasant, it was not yet a place of eternal torture. But only a very few people went to heaven to live with the gods.

The religion revolved around laws -- many of them, and not unlike the laws of the Hindus. Sin could be lifted by means of prayer and sacrifice, and uncleanness (such as menstruation and childbirth) by ritual purification, all controlled by the priestly caste. Beyond the Commandments, the Laws of Moses regulated all of life for the Hebrews -- diet, hygiene, medicine, even sexuality.

After Solomon, the condition of the Hebrew tribes began to deteriorate. Rich and poor classes developed, and the caste of priests (descendants of Levi) became increasingly powerful. Solomon's kingdom split into Israel in the north and Judah in the south. In 722 bc, Sargon II, the Assyrian emperor, overwhelmed the entire area.

The Assyrians were a particularly brutal group and the Hebrews, like others, suffered greatly. In the era of their overlordship of Palestine, a number of religious fanatics became influential among the Hebrews. They were disdainful of the rich and of the priests, and preached that the downfall of the Hebrews was due to their own sinfulness. These preachers were, of course, the prophets of the Bible: Amos, Hosea, Elijah, and Isaiah -- all preaching in the 800's bc. They introduced an idea borrowed from the larger cultures around them: the Messiah, including virgin birth and all. In the Greek translations of the Bible, Mahsiah would be translated as Christos, "the anointed one."

King Josiah ruled the area from 639 to 609. He and his priests saw the need for a codification of Hebrew traditions to provide solidarity among the people. In 622, they "discovered" (or created) a scroll presumably written by Moses, and called it the Book of the Covenant or the Law. It was probably much of Deuteronomy, and parts of Exodus (xx to xxiii?). The scroll was read out loud over two days and proved to be a hit! With that support, Josiah went on to destroy the idols to other gods in Palestine.

In 587 bc, in the midst of a war between Egypt and Babylonia, the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar invaded Palestine, destroyed most of Jerusalem, including the Temple. He took much of Jerusalem's population to Babylon as slaves. This was the Babylonian Captivity.

Just prior to the captivity, Jeremiah gave his warnings, and later, Ezekial reprimanded the Jews for bringing this on themselves once again. Also around this time there was a prophet, who also wrote under the name Isaiah, who developed a new image of Yahweh. His God was the only God, and he was the embodiment of love and kindness. And his ultimate victory over the evil of this world would be brought about by a Messiah.

In 539, Cyrus, King of Persia, conquered Babylonia and made Palestine part of the Persian Empire. He freed the Babylonian Jews and restored their wealth, and they returned to Jerusalem. They supplanted the non-Jewish settlers, rebuilt the Temple, and reestablished priestly rule and the Law of Moses.

Ezra, in 458 bc, had this Law read out loud. This time, it took two weeks, because the collection included the entire five volumes of the Torah. The present form of the Torah (the first five books of the Bible) was developed by 300 bc.

Modern scholars view the Torah as having four authors (or groups of authors):
"J" (for Jehovah) called God Yahweh and was likely from Judah. He was responsible for much of Genesis, Exodus, and Numbers.

"E" (for Elohim) used Elohim (God) instead, and was likely from Israel. He wrote the rest of Genesis, Exodus, and Numbers. J and E were probably integrated soon after 722 bc.

"D" represents the Levite priests who put together Deuteronomy. It probably dates from not long before 622, when King Josiah "discovered" it.

"P" (for priestly code) covers geneologies and rituals in the preceding books, plus Leviticus. It was probably written not long before King Josiah died, in 609. Some believe "P" may have been Jeremiah.

"R" (for redactor) combined J, E, and P into the first four books of the Torah, and then added D. Some scholars believe he may have been Ezra

In 332 bc, Alexander the Great took Jerusalem. It surrendered without a fight. Alexander was supposedly an admirer of the Jews and their God. This introduced a long period of Greek rule -- and accompanying Hellenization -- which would affect Judaism greatly. Besides a translation into Greek called the Septuagint in about 200 bc, the prophets were added to the collection of scriptures during this period, as well as Proverbs, Psalms, the Song of Solomon, Job, and Ecclesiastes.

The development of a Hellenized Jewish community in Alexandria (Egypt) led to a split between those liberal Jews and the more conservative Jews of Palestine. Also, the Samaritans, who inhabited what was originally Israel, broke ranks with the Jews of Judea (Judah), keeping only the original Torah as their scripture.

In 168 bc, Simon Maccabee took Judea out of the hands of Alexander's successors (the Seleucids), and began his own dynasty. But in 63 bc, Pompeii conquered the area and made Judea a part of the Roman province of Syria.

The next hundred or so years were crucial ones for the Jews. In 37 bc, nationalistic Jews in league with Parthian invaders, revolted. The Romans had appointed Herod ("the Great") as King of the Jews two years earlier, and he repelled the invaders and eliminated their Jewish supporters. He ruled the area until 4 bc, which may have been the year in which Jesus was born.

Palestine had a population of about two and one half million at this time, with some 100,000 people in Jerusalem. Three sects became influential:
The Sadducees were a conservative, highly nationalistic group. They did not believe in immortality.

The Pharisees believed in strict application of the Law, and added an oral tradition. They did believe in immortality, and were more conciliatory towards the Romans.

The Essenes were an extremist monastic tradition, possibly influenced by Buddhist monastics. They believed that a Messiah would establish the Kingdom of Heaven, to which only the "pure" would be admitted.

Over time, the government of Palestine -- mostly Roman-appointed Jews -- would degenerate into incompetence and corruption. Groups of Zealots (fanatics) arose who swore to kill all disloyal Jews. They killed quite a few, and many Gentiles as well. The Gentiles of the area responded in kind. Emperor Vespasian sent his son Titus with Roman legions to Palestine and Titus offered the Jews a lenient settlement. The Zealots turned him down, so the legionnaires slaughtered them.

In 70 ad, Titus ordered the Temple destroyed and the Jews dispersed -- the Diaspora. Millions of Jews spread throughout the Empire, which already contained some seven million Jews -- roughly 7 % of the Empire's population. With the Diaspora, the Sadducees disappeared and the Pharisees, by means of their teachers (rabbis) kept the flame alive by preaching the Law in thousands of synagogues.

Around 132 ad, there was another uprising by Jews in the Near East. The Emperor Hadrian outlawed teaching of the Law, and destroyed most of Judea. Many Jews went to Babylon, where they were fairly well treated and did quite well. In around 500 ad, they completed the Babylonian Talmud, a collection of commentaries on and explanations of the Law.

Within the Roman Empire, the Jews were granted citizenship (like everyone else) in 212 ad. They were, however, greatly disliked by other Roman citizens: They insisted on dressing differently, celebrating different holidays, eating different foods. Even more annoying was their exclusivity, their firm conviction that they were better than everyone else, and their disdain for anyone else's gods. The increasing popularity of one Jewish messianic sect -- Christianity -- only made things worse.

In 417 ad, Constantine, the first Christian emperor, lowered the Jew's status to secondary citizens of the Empire. They remained in that precarious position for the next 1400 years or so.

© Copyright 2002, C. George Boeree
1. Palestine is the name that the Romans gave to the area. It comes from their name for the Philistines, the people who once occupied the coast, and who may have been Greeks from Crete or Cyprus. The earliest name for Palestine was Canaan, and today, of course, we call most of it Israel.

2. The Hebrews, the Canaanites, and the Phoenicians were ethnically the same people. Their languages were merely dialects of each other, and they shared in the use of the first alphabet.
0 Replies
 
kevnmoon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 12:12 pm
Xingu.. Prophethood system was in Egyptian people's side.. They were so rich and beatiful,handsome etc.. Also they were in proud about that.. Hebrews were so poor and was in social discomfort. God doesn't like proudness. God started to send Prophet to Hebrews.. It was so good things for them.. But some time they had problems with their Prophets.. All the time they had thought that the last Prophet would come from their orgin.. But it couldn't become like that. Prophethood started in Arab country. And some of scholar accepted this position and believed İslamic Religion and become Muslim.. But most of them didn't accept Islam and disappointed and become enemy to them.. In reality, Muslims believe all Prophets and books from God.. but act with Qur'an which contains all other orginal books inside. There r a little command and prayer type differences between the orginal books.. But for essential matters, they are completely same... more and more ..........
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 01:28 pm
kevnmoon wrote:
I like these sentences and share with you.

''It is the requirement of dominion and rulership not to accept rivals; they reject partnership; they repudiate interference. It is because of this that if there are two headmen in a village, they will destroy its tranquillity and order.

Or if there are two chief officials in a district, or two governors in a province, they will cause chaos.

Or if there are two kings in a country, they will cause complete and stormy confusion. Since a pale shadow and petty example of dominion and rulership in impotent human beings needy for assistance does not accept the interference of rivals, opponents, or peers, then you may compare how fully a rulership which is in the form of absolute sovereignty and a dominion at the degree of dominicality will enforce that law of the rejection of interference in One Possessing Absolute Power.

That is to say, the most definite and constant necessity of Godhead and dominicality are unity and singleness. The clear proof and certain testimony to this are the perfect order and beautiful harmony in the universe.''

I agree with you, kevnmoon, and thank you for your post. Indeed, there cannot be more than One and a Unique God ruling the Heavens and the Earth.

In the Holy Qur'an, it is stated that:

- "... nor is there any god along with Him (Allah): (if there were many gods), behold, each god would have taken away what he had created, and some would have lorded it over others" [Glorious Qur'an 23:91]

- "If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both" [Glorious Qur'an 21:22]
0 Replies
 
kevnmoon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 01:38 pm
Muslim1,

Yeah.. These and also other ayats look GOD Unity which is most important matter of all BOOKS and BROTHER PROPHETS..

thanks..
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 03:18 am
Yes; Islam calls for unification against atheism and paganism - the enemies of God.

O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God. (Surat Al 'Imran, 64)

People of the Book refers to the Jews and Christians.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 04:57 am
Quote:
Yes; Islam calls for unification against atheism and paganism - the enemies of God.


Pagans and atheist have as much right to live their lives as Muslims. If your religion calls for violence and persecution of these people then I can understand why many Americans consider your religion evil. It is contrary to what America stands for.

From today's news;

Quote:
0 Replies
 
kevnmoon
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 10:31 am
Xingu,
World is examination place,.. also God gives all unbelievers food and water.. Only examination.. Who works so much, he wins so much.. Islam also look to other world.. not only for this world. So all thins must be considered together.
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Mar, 2006 05:49 pm
God gives them sustance and they do not believe in him? If God willed he could've destroyed all of them but he is giving them a chance to see if they ever realize the truth and stop following the stray path of Satan:

He [Satan] said: "By Your misguidance of me, I will lie in ambush for them on your straight path. Then I will come at them, from in front of them and behind them, from their right and from their left. You will not find most of them thankful." (Qur'an, 7:16-17)

The Quran even revelas how mankind is naturally arrogant and ungrateful:

No indeed! Truly man is unbridled seeing himself as self-sufficient. (Surat al-'Alaq: 6-7)
0 Replies
 
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Mar, 2006 10:22 pm
At least Satan was telling the truth...unlike some other god.
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Mar, 2006 01:21 am
Jason Proudmoore wrote:
At least Satan was telling the truth...unlike some other god.


How can you call God a liar? Let Satan lead you astray, but the truth is he will not stand by you when it comes time.

"Verily Satan is an enemy to you so treat him as an enemy. He only invites his followers that they may become companions of the blazing fire" (35:6).
0 Replies
 
Jason Proudmoore
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Mar, 2006 07:48 am
Jason Proudmoore wrote:
At least Satan was telling the truth...unlike some other god.



Raul-7 wrote:
How can you call God a liar?


I call God a liar with all the power of judgment bestowed in me.
God isn't just a liar, Raul, he's a slanderer, cruel, hypocrite, and stupid.



Raul-7 wrote:
Let Satan lead you astray, but the truth is he will not stand by you when it comes time.


I don't believe in God nor in Satan; I just treat the Bible or any other of its kind jus like any literature material that I read... just like Homer's Odyssey, The Iliad, and any of Shakespeare's work. I don't take any of them seriously…LIKE YOU!



Raul-7 wrote:
"Verily Satan is an enemy to you so treat him as an enemy.


Has it ever crossed your mind that Satan has been slandered by your god? Eh, Raul?

Raul-7 wrote:
He only invites his followers that they may become companions of the blazing fire" [/b](35:6).


So? And what about your god? Does he invite you to do atrocious deeds against humanity, like killing your son for misbehaving, killing homosexuals, and a bunch of others stuff I do not dare to list? What has Satan done against humanity…"lie"? Come on! Stop with the nonsense and learn how to read literature.
0 Replies
 
 

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