Man Wants Say in Unplanned Pregnancy

nimh wrote:

jespah wrote:
It's not enough to just leave birth control to chance or happenstance -- or to a woman just saying that she's on the pill or the diaphragm is in or whatever. Any guy who does not want an unplanned pregnancy should use a condom. Period.

Yeah, I can just see how that would work out.

Man and woman, have been with each other forever. They did their tests when they resolved to be faithful, dont have to worry about STDs anymore. Like a lot of couples who are long enough together. He doesnt want a baby, and he's said so. She says she's OK with that, she's using the pill.

He: Lets use a condom anyway.
She: Huh? But why? I'm on birth control.
He: Yeah, but I want to make sure...
She: But you know it's much less good for me ... and I'm on the pill, so - what's up? Wait - is there something you have to tell me?
He: Huh? Eh, no! Of course not. You know I am faithful to you..
She: So why with the condom?
He: Well, just because, I want to be sure...
She:...and you dont trust me, or something?
He: No, thats not it!
She: OK. Then I just dont get it. I'm on the pill, you say you didnt cheat ... do you think I cheated? Do you think I'm lying about the pill?
He: No, no, no! Its just ...

Yeah. Not that this conversation will ever happen out loud, of course, but that's basically what it comes down to. Insisting on using a condom when your wife or long-term girlfriend says you dont have to, when you've had your tests, she says she's on the pill, you insist anyway - that will go down well, its like an expression of distrust.

Well, my main point is that it's another way (using a condom) to minimize the risks of pregnancy. And to be proactive is a good thing. If you don't want a kid, you should be doing whatever is possible to not have a kid. Even the pill fails on occasion, even when taken perfectly, even if the rhythm method is used on top of it. It's not completely foolproof, so adding a condom to the mix is a part of helping the cause and, for a man (who, as shewolf said, has few options in this area), it's one of the few ways he can contribute to the responsibility of using birth control.

For a couple such as that, the key is communication.

"Why are you pulling out a condom? Have you been unfaithful to me?"
"No, of course not, I just want to help assure that you don't get pregnant. I want to take some of the responsibility, too."

Not the greatest ever pillow talk, but a lot better than leaving it all in an accusatory jumble.

Unlike most other aspects of rights, everything that wraps around pregnancy and childbirth is (given the current state of our technology) colored by the differences in genders, and also colored by the times inherent in pregnancy and in the amount of time a woman can wait to have an abortion. Spending 10 months on a hearing to decide on whether an abortion is okay is just not an option.

0 Replies

boomerang wrote:

If a man and woman have been together forever and have declared to be faithful to one another and if they don't want kids AND the woman has to take birth control pills instead of the man having a vasectomy.....

Uhmm ... add "now" in that sentence behind "kids"? Then it makes a lot more sense...

Ie, a man and woman have been together forever and have declared to be faithful to one another but they don't want kids now, so the woman still has to take birth control pills instead of the man having a vasectomy.

0 Replies

Bella Dea wrote:

Should the woman be forced to have a baby she didn't want?

In the post to which you replied, I wrote:

Quote:

When I saw the title of this thread, I felt a little sick - I thought, what sick prat would force a women to go through a full pregnancy and childbirth when she doesn't want it? [..] The right to abort should never be subject to the man's approval.

So I'm not quite sure what you mean.

0 Replies

nimh wrote:

they don't want kids now, so the woman still has to take birth control pills instead of the man having a vasectomy.

At least thats what I always thought, but I just saw Shewolf post that a vasectomy can be undone ... didnt know that. Never had to think about vasectomies, to be honest.

0 Replies

joefromchicago wrote:

Driver accidentally hits Pedestrian, injuring her severely. Driver did not intend to hit Pedestrian, but it is clear that he was negligent and that he alone was responsible.

You have an interesting view of consensual sex, judging on your choice of metaphor ... Razz

Seriously tho, isnt that last bit here already where the metaphor strikes a rock?

0 Replies

I'm trying to figure out how a viable law would come out of this.

About the only thing that would seem to make sense is if there was some contract signed before sex, where the woman states that she absolves the man of any responsibility to any child that issues from their union. That would have to be valid in all of the standard informed consent, not-under-duress, signed and witnessed ways. A type of pre-nuptial agreement, I guess. (Pre-coital?)

Not very romantic, to be sure, but it could maybe work.

Everything else I can think of runs into roadblocks in terms of potential abuse. Say there was a law that it would be OK for a man to not have to pay if he had thought at the time of intercourse that the woman couldn't get pregnant. It's the first thing any guy who wanted to get out of child support would say, from then on -- she told me she couldn't get pregnant! I swear!

0 Replies

nimh wrote:

You have an interesting view of consensual sex, judging on your choice of metaphor ...

The hypothetical deals with a situation in which one person decides and the other person pays. It is analogous to a situation in which the woman decides whether to have a child and the man pays for that decision. The accident isn't a metaphor for anything -- hypothetical questions aren't supposed to be metaphors, and anyone who interprets them metaphorically misinterprets them.

nimh wrote:

Seriously tho, isnt that last bit here already where the metaphor strikes a rock?

Explain.

0 Replies

sozobe wrote:

I'm trying to figure out how a viable law would come out of this.

About the only thing that would seem to make sense is if there was some contract signed before sex, where the woman states that she absolves the man of any responsibility to any child that issues from their union. That would have to be valid in all of the standard informed consent, not-under-duress, signed and witnessed ways. A type of pre-nuptial agreement, I guess. (Pre-coital?)

Not very romantic, to be sure, but it could maybe work.

I doubt that it would. Remember, child support isn't something that is supposed to help the mother, it is supposed to help the child. It is, therefore, the child's right to financial support that we're talking about here. A woman simply cannot sign away her future child's rights -- they're not hers to sign away.

0 Replies

It can be done after the child's birth though, can't it? The mother and father can agree to sign away the father's rights and responsibilities towards the child when the child is still an infant and unable to voice any preferences one way or the other.

0 Replies

I was in another thread earlier this week I believe it was and this very thing was brought up by one of the gentleman posters. When I saw this, I wanted to put it out there to see how many actually felt this was valid/insane, etc.

I'm kind of in-between on this. My conflict comes in with this: it seems many, if not most, advocate for the woman having a choice and that choice not being taken from her. I understand that is because it is HER body. However, I do see the point of the man on this also.

I was thinking about a contract type thing also, sozobe. When would they have to have the contract though? Before sex? After sex? After she finds out she's pregnant?

Are the man's rights ignored in this? If one advocates equal civil rights for everyone, isn't this going against that?

Joe! I just read that last sentence of yours again and I have to ask you something. You said:

[quote]A woman simply cannot sign away her future child's rights -- they're not hers to sign away.[/quote]

Joe, if she aborts the child, she IS essentially signing away the future child's rights. As long as she is pregnant, there is a future child and therefore has rights of some sort by your statement?

0 Replies

The contract -- if it would work, and I'm not sure it would, just not convinced by Joe yet -- would be before having sex. Same idea as a prenup happening before people get married.

0 Replies

sozobe wrote:

It can be done after the child's birth though, can't it? The mother and father can agree to sign away the father's rights and responsibilities towards the child when the child is still an infant and unable to voice any preferences one way or the other.

The father can always sign away his rights, but he cannot sign away his responsibilities to the child without, at the very least, the child's interests being adequately protected (as might be the case when the child is being adopted by someone else). If the state requires a father to provide financial support to his children, then a father cannot unilaterally renounce that responsibility, even if he gets the mother to agree.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Joe! I just read that last sentence of yours again and I have to ask you something. You said:

Quote:
A woman simply cannot sign away her future child's rights -- they're not hers to sign away.

Joe, if she aborts the child, she IS essentially signing away the future child's rights. As long as she is pregnant, there is a future child and therefore has rights of some sort by your statement?

Only if a fetus has the same status as a child.

But it doesn't.

0 Replies

The child's interests can be adequately protected with just the mother being responsible for that child, though, in my experience. My sister-in-law became pregnant, didn't want the father involved, father didn't want to be involved, and his rights and responsibilities were terminated through a legal agreement. She did not marry anyone else, nor give up the child for adoption.

It seems like there could be ways to write adequate protection of the child's interests into the contract.

I think it's extremely questionable as to how many women would go ahead and SIGN this theoretical contract, but at the theoretical level...

0 Replies

sozobe wrote:

The child's interests can be adequately protected with just the mother being responsible for that child, though, in my experience. My sister-in-law became pregnant, didn't want the father involved, father didn't want to be involved, and his rights and responsibilities were terminated through a legal agreement. She did not marry anyone else, nor give up the child for adoption.

Was a guardian ad litem appointed on the child's behalf?

0 Replies

I'm not familiar with the term (I was not directly involved in the process), but I don't think so.

0 Replies

Just looked it up -- it seems like if that makes the difference, the guardian ad litem could be set up and written into this (increasingly cumbersome and unlikely to be used IRL but still maybe theoretically possible) contract.

0 Replies

The new bar scene:

"Hey, baby, let's do it. But first, sign here."

"Gotta call my lawyer first. Marv? Look this over for me, willya?"

0 Replies

jespah,

That was a point I was thinking about. If there was a contract to be signed BEFORE sex then I would imagine many would have the same thoughts you just did. And, can't say that I would blame them in some respects.

Joe,

My point is this, and please correct me if I am misunderstanding, you said the future child's rights. I took that to mean the child that was presently in the womb? Did I misunderstand that part? I'll wait to find out before I finish my thought.

0 Replies

nimh wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
Should the woman be forced to have a baby she didn't want?

In the post to which you replied, I wrote:

Quote:
When I saw the title of this thread, I felt a little sick - I thought, what sick prat would force a women to go through a full pregnancy and childbirth when she doesn't want it? [..] The right to abort should never be subject to the man's approval.

So I'm not quite sure what you mean.

It wasn't so much a question at you as it was a question just being put out there.

0 Replies

Man Wants Say in Unplanned Pregnancy

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know