Fanfiction is crap!

Rider Haggard sounds very intriguing (I have read a brief bios about him)....but...I am deliberately an unread writer.........unscholared and blindly blazing my own paths through the wilderness of creativity. I watched as my mother ruined her natural artistic talent in painting the wilderness of Colorado while following the teachings of a technique any untalented brush could slap upon the canvas solely in pursuit of the almighty dollar. Her talent will never regain the uniqueness and pureness it once claimed. If I succeed or if I fail, it will be purely my own doing.

(tomorrow.....I may edit my postings of today which I must confess are directly under the infuence of George Dalaras, a taste of wine, and the beginnings of a new book......or at least novella.)

me agapi kai filia

Herema-

I wouldn't say you are wrong to approach writing like that but I think it is a risky method if you seek success. All the best writers I have read were avid readers themselves.

I'm not inclined to think that your mother's experience is a suitable example for comparison. Wide ranging reading will expose you to every technique which has stood the test of time not just to one as in your mother's case.

"I can hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea".

Bob Dylan.

Tambourine Man is a writer's song. Philip Larkin said it was the best song ever written.

cute...and point well taken FM....

one last comment and then I will shut up about it...I may deliberately not read certain things NOW....and not WATCH TV, but I am not completely in the dark about good writings...

okay end of that and back to topic which is an opinion that a certain type of writing is....less than another type maybe...

hmmm....

fm wrote-



In what way.

Perhaps you might take the trouble fm to explain exactly how you have arrived at that conclusion and then we can assess the validity of your assertion. As it stands it is no more than a reflex blurt and thus off topic itself on a thread which has intellectual pretensions.

Is fanfiction not fiction that has been written by people who have used characters and plots from earlier works that they admire? All those individuals I have mentioned wouldn't think of any other approach.


I'm sorry if I have misunderstood. What is it then? Perhaps you will be good enough to explain fm. I prefer to think in terms of meanings rather than labels I am trying to force others to accept. Somebody once said that there's no such thing as fiction anyway and that all writing is the public confession of a person's reality.

Anyway-as I said- explain why you insist at such great effort why I had strayed off topic and you might while you're at it assure us all that you never do any such thing yourself.

Is You Tube fanfiction?

wow

writing any form of fiction helps a writer get a better grip on reality...that is for certain!!!! If I ever get a tight enough grip....I will choke it.

blending fictional characters with real experiences and memories is....in fact.....a writer's reality. I like what you said spendius about that.....

I write fiction (and non fiction) and am my biggest fan...so....ah....do I write in effect, fanfiction. No? Oh...I thought not. Maybe one day when I get my ducks all in a row, I may take a stab at writing different things....like I have an interest in play writing, but only an inkling and an invitation to possibly play a hand in readying some old plays that never got finished by an actor who is no longer with us. It sounds like a challenge I would love to do.

oooooooooooooops.....:eek: am I off topic again. Just as long as you do not clobber me with that sign....

runnnnning away now

The sign is mostly for spendi. Hes afflicted with AADHD , or oral diahhrea, not sure which.

Herema wrote-



Your writing will never reach its potential if either of those bother you.

The thread is a subdivision of a subdivision of Able To Know and therefore nothing could be said to be off topic in that respect. What fm was seeking to do was to try to force contributions into the narrow lanes of his choosing and to do it with very little effort. He is likely uncomfortable with anything he cannot control.

There is no necessity for you to take my advice that engaging with those writers whose work has stood the test of time is the only sensible approach.

I realise that the ambitions you obviously have cause a degree of impatience and that to do what I suggest would slow you down but would you undergo an operation at the hands of a surgeon who was doing his own thing without reference to the received knowledge of the medical profession.

When someone reads your work, and the more successful you are the greater the number of such people there will be, you are doing a number on their head. Writing does have responsibilities. As Bob Dylan once said-" You can fry somebody's brain".

A male writer needs to understand maleness and then he can place a male character in any setting. The same goes for female writers having a clear understanding of femaleness. Any other approach quickly degenerates into solipsism and special pleading and simply appeals to those with a similar situation to the writer. One might say, stretching for emphasis, it's the difference between Marine training and Sunday School.

Open The Door Homer.

I don't think comparing surgeons to writersis a useful analogy. For one thing surgery has a definate process to follow and it is possible for a doctor to find what's wrong and know what to do. Plus someones life is not generally at stake when a writer composes literature.

There are no such solutions in literature. Sure reading helps, but there is no need to have read extensively on many subjects to write well.

I've read many essays by Issac Asimov (the most prolific american writer ever) on writing and do you know what the best advice they give for writing is?

PRACTICE. Someone needs to write alot and then write more b/c writing is hard work. If you have a good or orginal idea then it just takes alot of work to turn it into good or even great literature. No one gets there overnight and reading only helps a very little.

I know b/c I have read a great deal of literature of everykind, but when it comes to creative writing I have friends who are about 20 times better b/c they write more often.

Also don't forget the other big contributer: Raw talent. My best example of raw uneducated, largely unread talent: Shakespear.

As far as understanding maleness or femaleness, well I find that an interesting idea. I think such complete understanding would in fact have the results you say. I also think that it is impossible to ever completely achieve such understanding.

In the end what makes fan fiction or any other works successful is going to be a matter of opinion. Weather or not ANY published works will survive the test of time is really up to future generations.

afterall much of what literature professors and other literature aficionados will say is great timeless literature that will always stand the test of time is only read by those professors and other critics.




afterthought: I wonder what how much different, experimental or even better fan fiction might be if editors didn't have as much say in it?

xguy wrote-



Clockwork Orange is reputed to have been a type of brain surgery. Kubrick withdrew the movie for that very reason. The trial of Penguin for publishing Lady Chatterley was posited on the notion of its effects on brains. The Not Guilty verdict affected millions of brains way beyond what any surgeon could have time for. Flaubert was prosecuted. Bruno was burnt at the stake. Large numbers of writers have been silenced because of the effect they were deemed to have on people's brains. I could have used car mechanics. I nearly did.

Asimov is not a writer in the sense I use the word. Putting words on paper is not literature.

I agree about practicing.



The problem there is in defining a "good or original idea" and also defining "20 times better".

Shakespeare was very well read. He stole evey plot he used.They have all been traced.



I can't agree with that.

now who is off topic.....

so...what do you think of fanfiction?????

I think fan fiction is great. why?

well it gets people to read who normally would not. Also it gives me a chance to see more of a world than what I have seen in a good movie. I myself I'm a huge Star Wars fan and I enjoyed most of the expanded universe the first time I read it (although so many of the plots follow the same formula that I did get a little tired of it at the end).

I have not been able to get my little brother, who is 15, to read any other literature other than the Halo books. That's just what he is interested in. He's not by far the only person I know with whom this is the case.

as a matter of fact the only people I know who read literature that is classic aka part of the traditional canon are my friends who are literature majors.

Does it really matter what has or will stand the test of time anyway? Isn't it about what we enjoy now?


Unfortunately people just don't read as much as they used to. When they do instead they pick up either some sort of fan fiction or the latest book by (i.e.) John Grisham.


As far as Shakespear goes well...I'm sorry Will, it seems I owe you an apology. I hesitated to bring you into the conversation b/c I know the things people say about you and it looks like I've set you up once again to be trod upon. My bad.

Forget about shakespear a minute, and answer this: Does writing have anything to do with raw talent? That was my real point. Someone can read and practice tons, but simple talent helps.


As far as the surgery analogy, well just because you haven't studied other writers doesn't mean you literature will or will not have some kind of significant consequence either way on a persons brain.

Maybe it is a good analogy afterall. The more you write about it the more fun I have with the idea. I just don't like using analogies in debates ((course this isn't a debate..is it?)) because then you start arguing whether or not this thing is like this and you really are not talking about the actual things you set out to discuss.


As far as good ideas and people being twenty times better than me you are right. it is a matter of opinion. Those are my opinions. Just as what is or isn't good literature and what is good and writing. As well as how to be a good writer.

often to be considered a great writer all you need is the consensus(favorable opinions) of a bunch of professors.

BTW Asimov would be on my top five all time favorite authors list. Cause (Opinion) his work is awesome.

Well xguy-

Germaine Greer heads her chapter on Eugenics in Sex and Destiny with this Asimov quote-

"Babies are the enemy of the human race."

And I never get tired of any of my favourite books. They open up new vistas everytine I dip into them which I often do.



Yes okay-enjoyment is important. But how do you know that with a bit of care with the word "read" you might not come to enjoy the books that have stood the test of time. What teachers give students to read is not necessarily classic.

Never forget about Shakespeare not even for one minute. That is simply extraordinary. But I take professors with a bit of salt.

In the end it comes down to what you want to achieve. Might I offer the suggestion that you have a careful look at Flaubert's Letters and his correspondence with Saint-Beuve in the dispute over Salammbo. That's a bit like a blacksmith showing an apprentice how to beat a good sword out on an anvil. Without being shown an apprentice might manage it out of raw talent alone but it is unlikely. Writers are smiths of words.

Don't worry I would never really forget about ol Bill Shakespear. I have a copy of Julius Ceaser that I read at least three or four pages out of every day.


I'll look into Flaubert's Letters and his correspondence with Saint-Beuve in the dispute over Salammbo. I alway am looking for suggestions.


What are the odds of that same blacksmith apprentice making all the parts he would need for a car and then putting them together as well as a skilled mechanic?

xguy wrote-



The car mechanic,like the surgeon and the blacksmith, needs to be shown how to ply his trade by those who have had experience.

The point I'm making is that writers are the same. Your own resources are not enough. Have you ever seen the picture of flowers that Picasso painted at 15. He learned his trade properly too.

yeah I was a joking.

when....where.....are the masters?

who inspired them?
who instructed them?

"they said he couldn't do it, but he did. they said it wouldn't work, but it worked....."

"I think learning is great, inspiration is greater, and originality is greatest."

okay...so I am not TOTALLY unread.

me agapi