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# 68 Wildclickers arranging a ball

 
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 01:32 pm
Good links, Dan. I'll go read them as soon as I post this fascinating article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060315/sc_nm/science_frog_dc&printer=1;_ylt=ArqNLM4CK8lEjMrAt4JMVO4iANEA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

"Rare Chinese frog uses ultrasonic communication


Bats, whales and dolphins use it to communicate. Baby rodents call their mothers with it and now a rare Chinese frog has shown it can hear and respond to ultrasounds, scientists said on Wednesday.

The frog, Amolops tormotus, is the first non-mammalian species known to use the ultra-high frequencies that humans cannot hear.

It comes in handy to be heard above the pounding waterfalls and streams in the mountainous region of east-central China where Amolops tormotus, which is known as the concave-eared torrent frog, lives."
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 01:34 pm
Ul,

I'm afraid that we, the consumer, will have to pay a higher price, as we have with the regulations/inspections of all other meat products. Either that, or risk disease to the animals, and to us.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 01:43 pm
Stradee,

I question the validity of this quote from your article: "On the contrary, it is only when these viruses enter a high-density poultry operation that they mutate into something far more virulent."

I don't believe that is known.

I have been in a chicken factory, and am not a proponent of that practice - for any animal. It makes me shudder with horror.

I have such a pig factory as an immediate neighbor and the landscape here is dotted with hog and turkey factories.

By the way, the farmers use the turkey and chicken manure as fertilizer on the fields. I'm not sure what they do with hog waste, although the 'lagoons' create a real potential danger to ground water if they overflow or leak.

What I am suggesting is that the phenomenon has to be complicated, with the potential for the disease to develop and spread, and yes, mutate, in more than one way.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 07:30 pm
aktbird57 - always so much to read - St. Patrick's Day - Spring - April Fools - Easter - time for a new thread - number 69 anyone? -

You and your 291 friends have supported 2,283,860.6 square feet!

Marine Wetlands habitat supported: 103,079.8 square feet.
You have supported: (0.0)
Your 291 friends have supported: (103,079.8)

American Prairie habitat supported: 48,993.8 square feet.
You have supported: (11,798.7)
Your 291 friends have supported: (37,195.1)

Rainforest habitat supported: 2,131,787.0 square feet.
You have supported: (169,128.7)
Your 291 friends have supported: (1,962,658.3)

~~~~~~~~~~~~

2283860.6 square feet is equal to 52.43 acres

~~~~~~~~~~~

and sumac's got her new account crackin' !
0 Replies
 
Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 12:00 am
sumac, i understand your concerns, but CAFO's are a breeding ground for every known animal disease - reasons why animals fed massive doses of anti-biotics. Polution from huge conglomerate chicken farms have no place to process waste. Wild birds, mice, and other animals ingest what the earth cannot absorb - groundwater, streams, the enviornment is affected - not just from CAFO's but smaller farms as well.

Here's is an aricle you'll be interested reading. Talks about the politics of Factory farming. If you think the animals are suffering, wait till you read what workers are subject to.

The myths and realities of factory farming...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=ENG20051127&articleId=1333
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 06:30 am
And I understand, completely, what you, and the authors are saying.

What I am questioning is whether we know that this avian flu started in southeast Asia in a factory farm.

We know that it started there. Do the poorer areas have factory farms even?

If it developed in a factory farm, would we not have evidence of it?
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 06:32 am
I have lifted a quote below, out of the article, of what can be termed a viewpoint that does not involve global warming as the primary explanatory concept. Just to get you interested.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/15/science/earth/15ice.html?pagewanted=print

"March 15, 2006

Ice Retreats in Arctic for 2nd Year; Some Fear Most of It Will Vanish

By ANDREW C. REVKIN

For the second year in a row, the cloak of sea ice on the Arctic Ocean failed to grow to its normal winter expanse, scientists said yesterday. The finding led some climate experts to predict a record expansion of open water this summer. .........

......Some experts on the region, including Jamie Morison of the University of Washington, say they remain convinced that the biggest force determining the extent of Arctic sea ice is wind patterns, which cause part of the ice cap to revolve like a giant turntable, propelling a steady river of floes out past Greenland into the North Atlantic.

When ice is purged that way, the resulting open water can absorb more heat from the air, then expel that heat through the winter, limiting the thickness and area of new ice.

"I have a feeling the temperature rise over the Arctic Ocean is more due to the loss of ice from wind-driven export, rather than the loss of ice being due to temperature rise," Dr. Morison said."
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 06:34 am
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/15/AR2006031502198_pf.html

"Bird Flu Puts An Element Of Peril Into Buddhist Rite
Animal Experts Warning Against Traditional Release

By Alan Sipress
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, March 16, 2006; A15



PHNOM PENH, Cambodia -- Over the centuries, Buddhists in Cambodia and elsewhere in Asia have released the sorrows born of sickness, hunger and war through the simple, cathartic act of buying caged birds and setting them free, sometimes with a kiss.

In front of the shimmering gold pagoda of Wat Phnom, built on the grassy hill that lent the capital its name, Cambodians reach inside the metal and wire mesh cages, draw out sparrows, swallows, munias and weavers, often in pairs, then raise them in cupped palms to their lips. The devotees mumble a prayer and then set them free into the warm, still air."
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 06:54 am
http://images.livescience.com/images/060314_sweat_bee_04.jpg
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 06:55 am
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 07:07 am
4 clicks this morning. Wowee!
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 10:48 am
Good, solid article. Mainly about the research that will be going on. Quoted in its entirety and I know we are not supposed to do that.

http://www.aberdeennews.com/mld/inquirer/news/nation/14108724.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp


"Will U.S. migration spread flu?

As birds take flight, so do fears

By Sandy Bauers
Inquirer Staff Writer

In coming weeks, many of the planet's birds will point their beaks northward in a vast migration to breeding grounds in higher latitudes.

Researchers are watching one group in particular - roughly 6.6 million birds of 42 species flying from Asia to Alaska - concerned that they will bring the virulent H5N1 strain of avian influenza.

This month, a government consortium is launching a $29 million campaign to capture and test as many as 100,000 birds in Alaska and throughout the United States, as other avian migrants head south.

The H5N1 flu has spread inexorably, creeping across three continents and infecting 177 people, 98 of whom died, the World Health Organization reported Monday.

Since the beginning of March, it has been found in a duck in Switzerland, a swan in Serbia-Montenegro, chickens in Albania, cats in Austria, a stone marten in Germany, and wild birds in Sweden.

The new fear is that, because Alaska is a global bird hub with interconnecting flyways, Asian species could infect Western Hemisphere species. The birds could then transport the virus south along the continent's major migratory routes, including the Atlantic flyway that follows the East Coast.

The flu spreads among birds through nasal and fecal secretions.

Scientists are also worried the virus may sneak in with smuggled birds, which has happened elsewhere, or cross over from Europe via transatlantic migratory birds.

Consider the tundra swan, which breeds on the Arctic tundra in Alaska and western Canada.

Right now, thousands are migrating through Pennsylvania, stopping briefly at the Middle Creek Wildlife Management Area, which spans the border of Lancaster and Lebanon Counties. Anywhere from 500 to 3,000 also winter there.

In mid-May, they will arrive on the Arctic coastal plain, where they could mix with, say, the king eider - some 200,000 of which migrate yearly between Asia and Alaska.

If a grazing swan ingests fecal matter from a contagious eider, the swan could be infected and then further the spread when it flies back south in the fall.

This scenario could play out among any number of East Coast species. The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in northern Alaska reports that birds there migrate to every state in the union - canvasback ducks to New Jersey, Lapland longspurs to Pennsylvania, black-bellied plovers to Delaware, and semipalmated sandpipers to New York.

Overall, however, researchers have more questions than answers.

When will the flu arrive? Scientists shun alarmist cries of "Deadly bird flu approaching Alaska within the month!"They do, however, feel certain the day will come, probably sooner than later.

"A year ago we would have said if," said Leslie Dierauf, director of the U.S. Geological Survey's National Wildlife Health Center. Now,"we're saying when."

Researchers also don't know why this flu has turned deadly when many birds, especially waterfowl, harbor low-level flu viruses all the time. Scientists worry that such an unpredictable virus may mutate and trigger a human pandemic that could sicken millions.

But it's still not clear whether migratory birds are responsible for the virus' spread.

"We know migratory birds can catch the virus," said Bruce Woods, spokesman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Anchorage. "But we don't know whether most of the spread we have seen so far has been the result of the movement of migratory birds or poultry products and processing equipment, or some other vector."

Hon Ip, a virologist with the National Wildlife Health Center, notes that other avian flu viruses had different genetic fingerprints.

"The virologists say, 'Well, birds may fly back and forth, but whenever I check a North American bird, I never see an Asian virus,' " he said. "It looks like there's a biological barrier for the virus between continents."

Still, "the aftermath of having a bird come over and transmit it is severe," Ip said. "The risk is not zero, and the risk is what we want to monitor."

Later this year, as birds begin to migrate south, officials in the lower states plan to collect birds, swab their secretions, and release them. They also plan to collect 100,000 environmental samples - feces and water - and test them.

Meanwhile, by cross-referencing birds that could have been in flu areas with birds that have large populations migrating to Alaska, researchers have devised a hit list of 29 species to test there this spring.

They will be setting up diaphanous "mist nets" to catch birds in flight, plus other nets to trap birds that alight on beaches and waterfowl during their molt, when they cannot fly.

The goal is to detect the virus as early as possible, which Woods says is doable. "If there's a 1.5 percent occurrence of the virus within the sample population," he said, "we will have a 95 percent chance of spotting it." "
0 Replies
 
Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 11:22 am
sumac, the first known outbreak of the avian virus affecting farm animals, was a Chinese duck farm.

Wild fowl act as natural asymptomatic carriers of avian flu virus. Prior to the current H5N1 epizootic, strains of avian influenza virus had been demonstrated to be transmitted from wild fowl to only birds, pigs, horses, seals, whales and humans; and only between humans and pigs and between humans and domestic fowl; and not other pathways such as domestic fowl to horse. [9] H5N1 has been shown to be also transmitted to tigers, leopards, and domestic cats who were fed uncooked domestic fowl (chickens) with the virus. H3N8 viruses from horses have crossed over and caused outbreaks in dogs. Laboratory mice have been successfully infected with a variety of avian flu genotypes. [10]

Avian influenza virus spreads in the air and in manure and survives longer in cold weather. It can also be transmitted by contaminated feed, water, equipment and clothing; however, there is no evidence that the virus can survive in well-cooked meat. The incubation period is 3 to 5 days. Symptoms in animals vary, but virulent strains can cause death within a few days.

"Highly pathogenic avian influenza virus is on every top ten list available for potential agricultural bioweapon agents". [11]

Avian influenza viruses that the OIE and others test for in order to control poultry disease include: H5N1, H7N2, H1N7, H7N3, H13N6, H5N9, H11N6, H3N8, H9N2, H5N2, H4N8, H10N7, H2N2, H8N4, H14N5, H6N5, H12N5 and others. [12]

Known outbreaks of highly pathogenic flu in poultry 1959-2003 Year Area Affected Strain
1959 Scotland chicken H5N1
1963 England turkey H7N3
1966 Ontario (Canada) turkey H5N9
1976 Victoria (Australia) chicken H7N7
1979 Germany chicken H7N7
1979 England turkey H7N7
1983 Pennsylvania (USA)* chicken,turkey H5N2
1983 Ireland turkey H5N8
1985 Victoria (Australia) chicken H7N7
1991 England turkey H5N1
1992 Victoria (Australia) chicken H7N3
1994 Queensland (Australia) chicken H7N3
1994 Mexico* chicken H5N2
1994 Pakistan* chicken H7N3
1997 New South Wales (Australia) chicken H7N4
1997 Hong Kong (China)* chicken H5N1
1997 Italy chicken H5N2
1999 Italy* turkey H7N1
2002 Hong Kong (China) chicken H5N1
2002 Chile chicken H7N3
2003 Netherlands* chicken H7N7
*Outbreaks with significant spread to numerous farms, resulting in great economic losses. Most other outbreaks involved little or no spread from the initially infected farms.


1979: "More than 400 harbor seals, most of them immature, died along the New England coast between December 1979 and October 1980 of acute pneumonia associated with influenza virus, A/Seal/Mass/1/180 (H7N7)." [13]

1995: "[V]accinated birds can develop asymptomatic infections that allow virus to spread, mutate, and recombine (ProMED-mail, 2004j). Intensive surveillance is required to detect these "silent epidemics" in time to curtail them. In Mexico, for example, mass vaccination of chickens against epidemic H5N2 influenza in 1995 has had to continue in order to control a persistent and evolving virus (Lee et al., 2004)." [14]

1997: "Influenza A viruses normally seen in one species sometimes can cross over and cause illness in another species. For example, until 1997, only H1N1 viruses circulated widely in the U.S. pig population. However, in 1997, H3N2 viruses from humans were introduced into the pig population and caused widespread disease among pigs. Most recently, H3N8 viruses from horses have crossed over and caused outbreaks in dogs." [15]

2000: "In California, poultry producers kept their knowledge of a recent H6N2 avian influenza outbreak to themselves due to their fear of public rejection of poultry products; meanwhile, the disease spread across the western United States and has since become endemic." [16] [17]

2003: In Netherlands H7N7 influenza virus infection broke out in poultry on several farms. [18]

2004: In North America, the presence of avian influenza strain H7N3 was confirmed at several poultry farms in British Columbia in February 2004. As of April 2004, 18 farms had been quarantined to halt the spread of the virus. CDC detailed analysis

2005: Tens of millions of birds died of H5N1 influenza and hundreds of millions of birds were culled to protect humans from H5N1. H5N1 is endemic in birds in southeast Asia and represents a long term pandemic threat.

2006: H5N1 infects and kills wild birds in Europe and poultry in Africa.
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 01:32 pm
Fascinating. Thanks. Was I supposed to deduce something from this? Am I being dense?
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 01:39 pm
2005: Tens of millions of birds died of H5N1 influenza and hundreds of millions of birds were culled to protect humans from H5N1. H5N1 is endemic in birds in southeast Asia and represents a long term pandemic threat.

Tens of millions?
Hundreds of millions?

Endemic in birds in southeast Asia?

Where do these assertions come from?
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 01:41 pm
I am uncomfortable sounding like an apologist for factory farming practices, because I am not.

But I am trying to be a scientist here, and insisting on evidence of some sort as to the westward spread of this form of avian flu.
0 Replies
 
danon5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 02:47 pm
Afternoon clicks - but, clicks nontheless.......

all clicked....................

I sure hope the flu stays away - It may be that nature is trying to fix an ailment "us".
0 Replies
 
ul
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 03:25 pm
Again very late tonight. Much to read.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 06:13 pm
whooooooohoooooooo

aktbird57 - You and your 292 friends have supported 2,284,726.9 square feet!

Marine Wetlands habitat supported: 103,220.3 square feet.
You have supported: (0.0)
Your 292 friends have supported: (103,220.3)

American Prairie habitat supported: 49,064.0 square feet.
You have supported: (11,822.1)
Your 292 friends have supported: (37,241.9)

Rainforest habitat supported: 2,132,442.6 square feet.
You have supported: (169,152.1)
Your 292 friends have supported: (1,963,290.5)

~~~~~~~~~~~~

2284726.9 square feet is equal to 52.45 acres
0 Replies
 
danon5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2006 06:32 pm
WOW !! Can ya believe it?? Almost 53 acres........

I think that is really significant in Rain Forest terms.

It's us against the world folks.....!

Click on !!!
0 Replies
 
 

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