Who Are the Moderate Muslims?

That was SOMEONE ELSE, if you look in that thread I said I disagree with kaffir being on that list! Check what you are saying next time before you throw something in my face that I clearly said I was against!

I stil get the feeling that I'm being attacked on this board simply because I am muslim. Why is there no middle ground between friendly agreement or acceptence and unfriendly attacks? Can't we have friendly debate? Just because someone disagrees, can't they be civil about it?

Maybe these boards aren't for me.

Perplexed,

As a former teacher in the UK I can tell you that most young muslim boys born here have poor English skills, no interest in local knowledge or Enlish literature, and say they go "home" for long holidays....i.e. Pakistan. In the evenings they go to the mosque for long lessons on the Qu'ran and return home to be be waited on by the female members of the family. They go to bed late and are often sleepy in school the next day. The consequence is that they lack motivation, organization and underachieve educationally.

This is a statistical generalization but a factual one.
Now I ask you....do you think this a good basis on which to build successful community relations ?

No; I guess building a community on drunkenness, deception, and fornication is much more successful.

Raul-7,

The infantile logic of "two wrongs making a right" merely illustrates my "educational underachievement" point.

Well if you define Mohammed as the the best person who ever lived then of course not. However the Christians define Jesus as the best person who ever lived, and there's more of them, so Jesus wins by a clear majority.

Nah, she's pleased at how you pointed out I'm anal. It's something that's bothered her for ages, it's a personal thing.

I dont really understand the sense of triumph, since the number of times I've myself proclaimed, admitted or chided myself for being anal are pretty much legion - including in my interactions with her.

But I guess it gives her a special satisfaction of seeing someone else than just me myself pointing out my flaws as well.

You know, these boards are what you make of it.

So far it appears (to me, anyway) that you've persistently replied to those who are agressive to you, while not responding much to more friendly posts (not just from poster to poster, but also from post to post). Thats fine, but then you get what you go for: more acrimony and agression.

I've heard that you have a much better chance of constructive discussion if you actually engage with constructive posts rather than with the insulting ones. Not that I'd know, of course - I consistently fail to live up to that obvious lesson myself. But its a choice.

In France, meanwhile (the country of the riots), research apparently showed that weekly mosque attendance among French Muslims is actually as low as weekly church attendance among French Christians (source: Reuters).

Is it really so different in the UK, or is it the most religious/different ones who make the largest impression and thus disproportionally define the perception?

In a moment of weakness I decided to try and answer your question "what do atheists mean by God"...or similar.

The concept of divinity which I may or may not have is entirely personal to me. As I can only imperfectly describe God, even to myself, I certainly make no attempt to do so for others.

nimh.

I don't have national figures, only local experience of the North West of England where mosque attendence appears to be quite high. However, I would expect a difference in trend relative to France because of the the different former colonial origins (UK = India, France=North Africa). There are obviously many factors contributing to outbreaks of violence including different national attitudes to the police, and rivalry with other subgroups. There has been recent violence between Asian muslims and Afro-caribbeans here.

Despite local variations which might be operating between France and the UK, Harris speaks from
an American perspective and his general points ring true to me. As an atheist and an educationalist I deplore the divisive religious conditioning of children, especially when such conditioning has attitudonal implications for education. Judaism is also divisive but from an educational point of view it has an "achievement ethic" which at least prevents its youth from becoming ill-qualified and disaffected members of society.

You weren't humiliated in that exchange, per me.

Yes. That was it.

I hesitate to ask this, but what is it that constitutes 'anal'? I've heard it used before and basically ignored it, assuming it was some sort of pseudo freudian term of abuse. But people here are able to identify it from terms of speech! How? and want does it mean? Excuse ignorance.

This is as good an explanation as any. Its mostly used to point out such a meticulous, rather obstinate stranglehold on minutia, that one has relinquished the main idea, and has shifted the conversation to meaningless side items, which one further dissects with great pains and protractors. It has not yet been added to Wiki, but anal retentiveness can be sometimes result in a "nimh-job". Although some value has been found in a "nimh-job", no one can doubt it's psychological origins.

<nods>

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Anal retentive

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term anal-retentive (or anally retentive) is one of a variety of examples of Freudian terminology that have found their way into common usage with a slight shift in the original meaning.

Common usage

In common usage, the phrases "anally retentive," "anal-retentive" or "anal" are used to describe a certain style of behavior, and it is implied that this is due to a person clenching their anal sphincter, causing retention of feces (although this is not necessarily literally the case, or even intended literally.)

A person characterized as anal-retentive is perceived as worrying excessively about "passing feces": little details of fecal consistency, color and aroma or as otherwise being overly uptight or distressed over ordinarily normal evacuation.

Today, however, the term is often used of anybody seen as overly worried about small details and unable to adopt a philosophical attitude toward mistakes. This metaphorical usage has become so commonplace that the somewhat graphic literal meaning of the phrase is often overlooked by those using it.

Another term used in a similar context is "hair-splitting." The intended implication is that an "anally retentive" person needs to "loosen up" a little instead of "holding on to it."

Freudian terminology
Sigmund Freud proposed that in a child's early years there is a pre-occupation with the mouth. This is known as the "oral stage."

Then the child typically moves on to the "anal stage" which is characterised by the child deriving pleasure from bowel movements. The child discovers the pleasure which comes from the exercise of power (in this instance the power to hold on or let go.)

After the anal stage the child's development will be able to move on to the "phallic stage" when the child's focus of attention will shift to the genital region. Freud believed that conflicts with parents and delays during toilet training can cause a person to become fixated on anal control, which later manifests itself as a compulsive concern with order and cleanliness.

In this original sense, the term means simply that a person has retained traits from the anal stage of psychosexual development.

Popular Culture
Phil Hartman played a series of popular characters on the NBC sketch comedy show "Saturday Night Live," including the "Anal-Retentive Chef," the "Anal-Retentive Sportsman" and the "Anal-Retentive Carpenter."

See also
Freudian psychosexual stages
Oral fixation
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_retentive"
Category: Freudian psychology

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<tongue in cheek emoticon, sorta...Steve, I don't subscribe to everything Freud said (HARDLY), but the result of anal behavior, yes. I do.)

<laughs.....quite a lot in fact>