Chumly,
Agreed !
Sacks is an intellectual who converges to the intellectual modus of the Archbishop of Canterbury. The head of the Muslim Council of the UK doesn't quite match up to those two !
It's a spooky thought to consider that a Rabbi might have parallel thought processes to a Nazi in terms of the Final Solution.
Was'nt the final solution of the Nazi's to completely wipeout the Jewish people?
God's plan?
Who can thwart the plans of God?
That's right a poison pill in the Bible revealing the true identity of Jesus Lucifer.
talk72000 wrote:That's right a poison pill in the Bible revealing the true identity of Jesus Lucifer.
The Bible teaches that Lucifer aspired to be God, but not that he is God.
real life wrote:The Bible teaches that Lucifer aspired to be God, but not that he is God.
What evidence do you have that the bible contains the word of God?
real life:
Jesus Lucifer is not God, he just aspires to be God.
5) Isaiah 14:14
I will be like the most High.
God says He is the first and the last in the following passages:-
OLD TESTAMENT
Isaiah 41:4
Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of Hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
NEW TESTAMENT
Jesus says that he is the first and the last in the following passages:-
Revelation 1:11
Saying, I am the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and untoLaodicea.
Revelation 1:17
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
God's garments are sprinkled with blood in the following passage:-
OLD TESTAMENT
Isaiah 63:3
I have trodden the wine press alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
Jesus' garment is dipped in blood in the following passage:-
NEW TESTAMENT
Revelation 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
OLD TESTAMENT
In Isaiah, new heavens and new earth are mentioned in the following passage:-
Isaiah 66:22
For as the new heavens and new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
NEW TESTAMENT
In Revelation, a new heaven and a new earth are mentioned in the following passage:-
Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away: and there was no more sea.
OLD TESTAMENT
God is the bridegroom of His people in the following:-
Isaiah 62:5
For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
NEW TESTAMENT
Jesus is the bridegroom of his followers in the following:-
Matthew 9:15
And Jesus said unto them, Can the chilren of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and shall they fast.
Mark 2:19.
And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.
20. But the days will come, while the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
Luke 5:34.
And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridegroom fast, while the bridegroom is with them?
35. But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
Revelation 19:7.
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
9. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Revelation 20:9.
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
The irony for those who believe that "Lucifer" refers to Satan is that the same title ('morning star' or 'light-bearer') is used to refer to Jesus, in 2 Peter 1:19, where the Greek text has exactly the same term: 'phos-phoros' 'light-bearer.' This is also the term used for Jesus in Revelation 22:16.
On a lighter note, Arthur Clarke, in his fictional book 2061 correctly uses the word "Lucifer". He uses it as a name for a new sun in the solar system which is correct since the new sun is a second 'morning star' of 'original' 'light-bearing' substance
talk72000 wrote:real life:
Jesus Lucifer is not God, he just aspires to be God.
5) Isaiah 14:14
I will be like the most High.
God says He is the first and the last in the following passages:-
OLD TESTAMENT
Isaiah 41:4
Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of Hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
NEW TESTAMENT
Jesus says that he is the first and the last in the following passages:-
Revelation 1:11
Saying, I am the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and untoLaodicea.
Revelation 1:17
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
God's garments are sprinkled with blood in the following passage:-
OLD TESTAMENT
Isaiah 63:3
I have trodden the wine press alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
Jesus' garment is dipped in blood in the following passage:-
NEW TESTAMENT
Revelation 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
OLD TESTAMENT
In Isaiah, new heavens and new earth are mentioned in the following passage:-
Isaiah 66:22
For as the new heavens and new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
NEW TESTAMENT
In Revelation, a new heaven and a new earth are mentioned in the following passage:-
Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away: and there was no more sea.
OLD TESTAMENT
God is the bridegroom of His people in the following:-
Isaiah 62:5
For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
NEW TESTAMENT
Jesus is the bridegroom of his followers in the following:-
Matthew 9:15
And Jesus said unto them, Can the chilren of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and shall they fast.
Mark 2:19.
And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.
20. But the days will come, while the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
Luke 5:34.
And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridegroom fast, while the bridegroom is with them?
35. But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
Revelation 19:7.
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
9. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Revelation 20:9.
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
You have nicely shown that Jesus is God, but have utterly failed to show that Lucifer is Jesus.
He is made out to be like god but he is Helel by the John, a joker.
The Jewish name for Lucifer is Helel, a demon.
Isaiah 14:12 (KJV with Hebrew)
"How art thou fallen from heaven,
O Helel, son of Shahar!
how art thou cut down to the ground,
Helel, or Day Star, is a Canaanite god. Shahar is another Canaanite god
In his fallen state, Helal was known as Azazel, the earth-bound demon to whom the Israelites gave as a yearly sacrifice on the Day of Atonement a "scapegoat" that was sent into the wilderness for Azazel after another goat had been sacrificed before the mercy seat of Yahweh:
Leviticus 16:5,7-10
"[Aaron] shall take from the congregation of the people of Israel two male goats for a sin offering . . . and Aaron shall cast lots on the two goats, one lot for Yahweh and the other lot for Azazel. Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for Yahweh, and offer it as a sin offering; but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before Yahweh to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel"
Of course, I don't want to tear down Jesus all the time as what he brought forth is also good. I am just pointing that he is not god or what the far right makes him not the champion of the poor and meek but of the rich and arrogant slyly clothed with words of humility..
Bartikus wrote:Was'nt the final solution of the Nazi's to completely wipeout the Jewish people?
God's plan?
Who can thwart the plans of God?
Are you saying that the Nazi's final solution is part of God's plan?
real life wrote:talk72000 wrote:That's right a poison pill in the Bible revealing the true identity of Jesus Lucifer.
The Bible teaches that Lucifer aspired to be God, but not that he is God.
How does this relate to god's plan and the Nazis Final Solution?
Chumly wrote:neologist wrote:Chumly wrote:So anything that does not fall into the first 2 chapters of Genesis is not part of god's plan?
God does not abandon his purpose.
". . . so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it." (Isaiah 55:11)
Are you saying then that the Nazi's Final Solution is not part of God's purpose?
I'll ask Master Neo again: Are you saying then that the Nazi's Final Solution is not part of God's purpose?
Ummm I don't understand this at all. Why should what a group of political extremists chose to do be God's idea?
God is all powerful and all knowing.
Because God is all powerful and all knowing he must have known not only that the Final Solution was going to happen but that it did in fact happen.
Because God must have known not only that the Final Solution was going to happen but that it did in fact happen it must have factored into his plans.
God choose not to stop the final solution knowing full well the consequences of doing so.
Over 6 million Jews - his chosen people - murdered.
Well that assumes that God predetermines things, which I don't believe, but I see your point. However, I still don't see that God knowing it really proves he planned it. For instance, time could be to God as physical places are to us, and he could be able to see all of time at once like a map, if he is truly outside time. Then he would KNOW the final solution was going to happen, but that doesn't mean to say he chose it.
Seeker wrote:Well that assumes that God predetermines things
I agree.
Seeker wrote:However, I still don't see that God knowing it really proves he planned it.
If his powers are infinite then he must have known about it before it happened.
If so he must have been able to stop it.
If he must have been able to stop it, but did not, this must mean he did not stop it for a reason. It does not matter one iota what that reason was, even if the reason was he did not want to interfere, or if the reason was he had no reason, it is still a reason.
Reason is tantamount to purpose.
Purpose is tantamount to planning.
I argue that you cannot have an all powerful, all knowing, infinite god and arbitrarily and conventtinly decide when he is being interventionist (planning) and when he is not. However this is exactly what Christians (for example) do.
