1
   

Very hard (few sentence) logic problem

 
 
Reply Wed 8 Feb, 2006 05:13 pm
Okay, me, a bunch of math seniors, and one of our professors (this is college-level) have been struggling to solve the following math problem out of a math publication:

Quote:
A teacher chooses two positive, not necessarily distinct numbers, x and y. She gives the sum, x + y, to Stephen, and the product, x*y, to Peter. They do not know each other's numbers, but they know if they were given the sum or product of the two numbers. One says to the other "There is no way you can determine what number I have." The other replies "Now I know you have 136." Both statements are 100% valid and their determination is logical. What are x and y?


One concrete fact we figured out is that if Stephen says the first statement, he cannot have a prime plus one, since then there is the possibility that Peter has the prime (in which case he can figure it out, since 1*the prime is the only factor, so he can figure 1 + the prime is Stephen's sum).

If you can figure this out, well...Harvard needs you!
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,515 • Replies: 4
No top replies

 
markr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Feb, 2006 10:31 pm
S has 136 (and makes the first statement)
P has 135

From P's perspective, these are the possibilities:

N1 N2 S
---------
1 135 136
3 45 48
9 15 24
5 27 32

As you pointed out, S can't make the first statement if he has a prime+1. Of 136, 48, 24, and 32, only 136 is not a prime+1.

QED
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Feb, 2006 10:37 pm
O.....M......G!!!!!


It's TechnoGuyRob!!!!!


It's been about a year and a half!!!


<do I seem excited?>
0 Replies
 
markr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 01:15 am
This wasn't really that hard - took about half an hour. When I was done, I realized it should have been faster.

You can pretty quickly rule out P as having made the first statement - too many sums for a given product.

So, what you're looking for are two numbers (x,y) that add up to 136 such that when their product is expressed as the product of exactly two numbers (p,q), p+q is a prime+1 for all but one case.

This should be clearer:

x+y=136
p = x*y
Say p can be expressed as a product of exactly two numbers in N ways:
p1 * q1 (s1 = p1 + q1)
p2 * q2 (s2 = p2 + q2)
.
.
.
pN * qN (sN = pN + qN)

Then a solution exists when all but one of s1 through sN is a prime+1. Since 136 is always in the list of sN, it must be the only one that isn't a prime+1 (because 135 isn't prime).

It turns out that there is only one case to consider:
(1,135)

Why?

p can't be prime because it is the product of two numbers that sum to 136 (and 135 isn't prime).
(1,p) is obviously one of the N ways of factoring p into two factors.
p+1 can't be a prime+1 because p isn't prime.

Therefore, you will always have two sums (136 and p+1) in the sN list that aren't prime+1, unless 136 is p+1.

Fortunately, as shown in my previous post, it works for p+1=136, otherwise, there wouldn't be a solution.
0 Replies
 
TechnoGuyRob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2006 11:24 am
Aw geez, we made that list too, and messed up checking if 47 is a prime. Bah.

Anyways, thanks, I don't think we would have ever tried that again and ended up just never solving it. Razz

And hey Lash! I remember you both! From way back when...
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Alternative Einstein's riddle answer - Discussion by cedor
Urgent !!! Puzzle / Riddle...Plz helpp - Question by zuzusheryl
Bottle - Question by Megha
"The World's Hardest Riddle" - Discussion by maxlovesmarie
Hard Riddle - Question by retsgned
Riddle Time - Question by Teddy Isaiah
riddle me this (easy) - Question by gree012
Riddle - Question by georgio7
Trick Question I think! - Question by sophocles
Answer my riddle - Question by DanDMan52
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Very hard (few sentence) logic problem
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/10/2024 at 06:56:34