Lizard Brain Versus Cerebral Cortex

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I sometimes think when the non-theist posters discourse with the faith based posters that the non-theist's are in some sense arguing with reflections of themselves and their own inner demons.

Perhaps it's a part of ourselves that we are trying desperately to rise above, with varying degrees of success? The primitive superstitious versus the thoughtful rationale all in one wrapper? The lizard brain versus the cerebral cortex so to speak? Do we non-theist posters always truly convince ourselves to the core of our being?

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You are up late, Chumly. Can't sleep either? I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here. Can you elaborate a bit?

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The inner demon of the comforting answer perhaps?

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The fear that we may somehow just give into it and somehow lose a key bit of our personality to the collective.
I would say this is a key reason a good portion of atheists refuse to read the bible.
Personally I faced this demon in my teens. I tried everything I could to believe in a god, in fact cycled through many forms of religion, devouring all the information I could on them. I found myself incapable of any form of religious faith. I hit a wall. A wall of clear thinking.
Perhaps it was this voracious study of religion that sealed my fate as a non believer? It seems the whole faith thing works better the less you actually know.

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I sometimes find things nibbling at me in the middle of the night, and it turns out it's not my wife (or dog) but imagination, dreams, fear, doubt and the big WHY.

I think perhaps some chat with believers here to see and/or challenge that part in themselves.

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Chumly,

I think I am getting a better feeling of what you are saying here. So, are you saying that maybe the non-theists are actually (I don't want to say the wrong thing here but fear I might) having some kind of doubts? Perhaps the best way to ask that question is are you saying you are having some doubts?

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One question you should ask yourself is why do you believe what you believe?

If your motivation is moral license or some vague reward in the hereafter, you do well to examine first your premises, then your logical development.

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Allegorically speaking only:

If you fight the instinct to flea because you know better, is that doubt? No.
If this is emotion is personified in your discourse with other's who believe in fear, is that doubt? No.

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Chumly,

Ok, you are going to have to simply this a bit more for me. I am not understanding you fully and I really want to.

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neologist wrote:

One question you should ask yourself is why do you believe what you believe?

Me?

I don't abide by any belief system that is not firmly rooted in the rational and provable despite what the little man next to the fire may whisper on a dark cloudless night.

Why? Lots of reasons one is because that opens up the can of worms to believe any and all; here be dragons!
Of course you can call me out on this as there are certain subjective experiences that I cannot smoothly rationalize but appear real enough to me such as friendship and love but even these have clear physical manifestations. And of course you could call me out on the scientific disciplines that I do not understand well enough to make a proper case for.

In any case, the above is OT somewhat from my premise that we are discoursing (in the figurative sense) with our refection's when non-faiths reason with the faiths.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Chumly,

I think I am getting a better feeling of what you are saying here. So, are you saying that maybe the non-theists are actually (I don't want to say the wrong thing here but fear I might) having some kind of doubts? Perhaps the best way to ask that question is are you saying you are having some doubts?

No thoughtful non-theist (that I would likely appreciate) would use dogmatism when it comes to rational scientific methodology. Why? Because the rational scientific mind set must have inherent doubt, and must see such doubt as advantageous.

*So doubt is mandatory, but doubt is not the issue*

FWIW it is the religionist's dogma that often precludes doubt and contends that doubt is a disadvantage.

Mom, the issue of doubt (at least in the strictest sense) is not really central to my point but would make an interesting topic for another thread.

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I guess I just will have to keep watching and reading. Maybe I can figure out what it is you are saying. I'm very interested but I still am not sure what this is all about.

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My wife says the same thing all the time but not as nicely as you Laughing

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Well, that makes me feel better! Thanx!

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The basis of a rational belief system is that it is always open to modification, as new knowledge is obtained. That contrasts with the theist position, which is based on absolute certainty.

Absolute certainty brings with it a modicum of relief to the theist. Nothing concerning the beliefs needs to be evaluated, answers are already known. When a theist comes across an inconsistency, it is a comfort to ascribe the cognitive dissonance to "faith".

Non-theists have no such solace to fall back on. Ideas and conclusions need to be evaluated constantly against former premises. All in all, if done properly, intellectual evaluation is a lot of hard work.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

The basis of a rational belief system is that it is always open to modification, as new knowledge is obtained. That contrasts with the theist position, which is based on absolute certainty.

Absolute certainty brings with it a modicum of relief to the theist. Nothing concerning the beliefs needs to be evaluated, answers are already known. When a theist comes across an inconsistency, it is a comfort to ascribe the cognitive dissonance to "faith".

Non-theists have no such solace to fall back on. Ideas and conclusions need to be evaluated constantly against former premises. All in all, if done properly, intellectual evaluation is a lot of hard work.

Phoenix,

I think you are being a bit unfair here, which is definitely not like you at all.

You seem to be assuming that just because someone has faith that they have no questions or when they do have questions and can't find an answer then they just say, oh well, I have faith. This may be true in some instances, but theists are, aftall, human.

The fact that theists believe in something higher than man seems to be discounted quite often. Where non-believers look to man for the answers believers look (what we definitely believe) is beyond man. We are, in reality, looking for a higher reasoning than what man can offer.

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I've been on a road similar to Dr S. Tried to find religion; tried to believe in a god.. Went to various Christian churches and non Christian services. None of it touched the atheist core of my heart.

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Quote:

We are, in reality, looking for a higher reasoning than what man can offer.

Momma- But theists are NOT looking. That is exactly the point. They claim that they already have the answer. And when faced with an inconsistency, the standard answer is, "faith"!"

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Funny, I thought I just said that we are, in reality, looking for a higher reasoning than what man can offer. At least I thought that's what I said. You mean that's not what I said or that's not what I meant?

THIS theist does look for answers. THIS theist asks questions all the time. THIS theist realizes I can learn about a lot of things in a lot of different places.

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Quote:

THIS theist does look for answers. THIS theist asks questions all the time. THIS theist realizes I can learn about a lot of things in a lot of different places.

Momma- Bottom line though, you are emotionally tethered to the concept of Jesus Christ as the messiah, although the world has produced a plethora of religions and philosophies.

Why THAT religion? Why not another, or none at all, or maybe the concept that none of us really know.

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Lizard Brain Versus Cerebral Cortex

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