How much of what you believe came from someone else?

Interesting. There is a very interesting book I read once called 'the god part of the brain' that sheds some insight onto this position, one I myself hold.

An excerpt from the synopsis at http://www.godpart.com/


I highly recommend this book to anyone and everyone.

"Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society."
Thomas Szas

Doktor S, Did you know that elephants go into mourning when one of them dies?

As a matter of fact, yes I did. Did you know gorillas can learn and communicate with sign language?
recent experiments also reveal a level of abstract thinking ability in parrots.
Man is an animal. We are not so 'unique' as the god-adorers would have us believe...

Did you also read about the whale that was saved off the coast of San Francisco that thanked the divers that saved him?

Very little of what I believe came from someone else. I began life as a liberal Christian because, as CI indicated, that was the tradition of my upbringing. I called myself an agnostic for years because I had fallen away from mainstream Christianity and didn't have the inclination or feel any need to be religious. What I was failing to realise was the sense of spirituality I was getting from nature. I would walk in the woods, climb mountains, paddle canoes down rivers and feel at peace. When troubled by my thoughts, I would find a place to sit outside and simply be in a place of sanctuary while working through what was troubling me.

When my children were small I felt the need to give them a religious foundation, even if they rejected it later, and discovered the UU faith whose cornerstone principle is 'The free and responsible search for truth and meaning'. I've been doing that ever since and will continue to do it for the rest of my life. Today my leanings are toward pantheism as I still find nature to be incredibly spiritual. Tomorrow, who knows? It's a lifelong journey.

No, I hadn't.
But it seems feasible given the recorded nature and intelligence and general harmlessness of whales to humans.

That made me smile, CI. Thank you.

That's more like it c.i.

But you didn't wring your hands anymore than they did 30 or 40 years ago.

You need to catch up.Have you not heard of compassion fatigue?

JB, I find so many things in nature that are beyond words, I think I know what you're saying. Some can be so emotionally overwhelming, it does seem like what people call "spiritual" experience. But I can also experience those feelings from listening to beautiful music, from heart-rendering human actions and experiences, and from the theater.

It's ironic that we need to have disappointments and tragedies in our own lives while trying to maximize our enjoyments, and the more we experience the bad parts seem to intensify our enjoyment of our good parts.

I find spirit in those things too, CI.

hepheibah.. You say;
quote......
I was converted to Christianity when I was 19 because I saw something real in God that I had never seen before in my life.... unquote.

Your statement says to me that you found "god" through the priest's telling you about this "god" through religion. If so, why was it that you were able to investigate the priest's preaching and come to the conclusion that religion was a sham, yet this "god" was real ?.

No not at all. Actually it was quite the opposite. A girl at work I didn't even like because she was always happy, and I most definately was never happy, nor could see any reason to be happy started talking to me about God. I, personally, thought she was full of crap.

"God-shmod" I thought. "If there was a God, all these bad things wouldn't have happened to me." She kept wanting to hang out with me though. And because I was such and introvert and really had no other friends I kept hanging out with her. Eventually I started going to church with her occasionally, still thinking, "This is all a load of crap". One day at a church meeting something inside me clicked. I don't know what or even how. It just did. And when they had an alter call I went up, not even really understanding what it was I was doing.

So, you know how you hear all these fabulous testimonies of how people got saved and their life radically changed? Well, this was not the case with me. Not even close. I was convinced in my mind that "God" was just like everyone else in my life. He was just going to string me along for awhile, and then dump me off on a curb somewhere when He was done with me. It took many years for me to be convinced of God's love. And I can assure you that it was no person who convinced me.

It is hard to believe in something you can't see, touch, or feel. When someone who proclaims to know God's love turns right around and treats you like crap it is hard to give any validity to what they say or believe. This happened a lot to me. Within two months of being saved I was deemed as possesed with 10 demons... After being raped for the third time I tried to commit suicide and spent 4 days in the hospital because of it. The "christian" friends that came to see me could only tell me what a sinner I was for trying to commit suicide, and respond, "yeah right, I've heard that before" when I told them I wanted to recommit my life to the Lord. The people in my church told me I wasn't saved because I didn't speak in tongues... The list goes on forever really.

All the people who ever proclaimed to represent God and His purposes has failed me at some point. To be quite honest here, some of the worst hurts I have had in my life came from "christians". Sad, I know, but true none the less. So why did I stick with it? I honestly don't know. All I know is that for the first time in my pathetic life I felt hope. Hope that maybe I too could be loved by someone. Hope that maybe my life could somehow get better than it was. Because you know... it sucked pretty bad. It was the day by day changes that kept me going. The little things. It was reading the bible and even though I didn't understand a lot of it, some of it started to make sense a little bit. It was feeling like, for the first time in my life, that someone actually cared about me. That someone was listening to me. That someone knew just how much I was hurting inside.

So how did I come to the conclusion then that religion is a sham and God is real? Well, first let me say I don't think I'd go as far as to say that I think religion is a sham. However, "religion" itself did not change me. Religious people preaching at me did not change me. Wow, this is harder to explain than I thought it would be... I came to the conclusion that God is real through the things I experienced in my life day to day. The little changes that started happening in my heart. Then the bigger changes that came later on. I know that's not much, but it's the best I have to offer you right now. I'm sorry.

As for how I got where I'm at with how I feel about religion... I know what I believe now. It is based out of the bible. Based on every thing I've learned and believe to be true, most things which I see happening around me within the "christian world" are wrong. Not all things. Not all people. However, I believe that if christians are going to proclaim to be christians they need to be walking the walk they are talking. If you say you believe in God and you live by the bible, then learn it and do your best to live by the principles in it. I know I'm not perfect. I'm not proclaiming to be so by any statements I make here. Actually, I am probably the farthest thing from perfect.

I just want to live a life of integrity. I don't want to have double standards. I want to live my life within the context of what I believe to be true, without shoving it down anyone else's throat. If that counts for anything at all...

Much of what I learned from someone else, the majority of it, I had to dismiss and begin learning all over again.

hephzieah.
Thanks for the reply. I tried to dissected it and replied where I thought it might helpful ?

QUOTE. A girl at work I didn't even like because she was always happy, and I most definitely was never happy, nor could see any reason to be happy started talking to me about God.

Lightfoot...(1st time you heard about a god?)

QUOTE. because I was such and introvert and really had no other friends.
Lightfoot...( Not a good way to understand people and the world in general... you had isolated yourself ? )

QUOTE. One day at a church meeting something inside me clicked.
Lightfoot... ( The beginning of what you didn't "believe" in your quote below ?)

Quote. you hear all these fabulous testimonies of how people got saved and their life radically changed?
Lightfoot... ( Influenced you in finding "your" god ?)
QUOTE. "God" was just like everyone else in my life. He was just going to string me along for awhile, and then dump me.
Lightfoot... ( Justification for the " something inside me clicked" ? )

QUOTE. It is hard to believe in something you can't see, touch, or feel.
Lightfoot... ( Not if you were as desperate a position as you seemed to have been ?)

Quote. After being raped for the third time I tried to commit suicide and spent 4 days in the hospital because of it. All I know is that for the first time in my pathetic life that someone actually cared for me.
Lightfoot.... ( In this instance, the last person to have looked for help was a god that you had just discovered, who you really didn't "know" existed, but who you "thought" and "believed" did --- and all this derived from the pump that supplies blood to the whole of your body ??? don't you think it could of perhaps, come from the mind that was completely distorted in what it had endured? )

QUOTE. All the people who ever proclaimed to represent God and His purposes has failed me at some point.
Lightfoot... ( And this new god that you "believe" "think" "concluded".... had been told about, DID??

QUOTE. It was feeling like, for the first time in my life, that someone actually cared about me. That someone was listening to me. That someone knew just how much I was hurting inside.
Lightfoot.. ( Once again how can your mythical god, hear-feel anything? ANYBODY other than those that "believe" in god's-goddesses's- spirits-ghosts-angels and the such, would help you a dam site more than them.

Quote. I came to the conclusion that God is real through the things I
experienced in my life day to day. The little changes that started happening in my heart.
Lightfoot... ( If this is true--- be true to yourself, it's you that has changed, and for goodness sake take the accolades for it. Give yourself some well earned praise and bolster your self respect..... the one that hates himself usually hates the world.

Quote. I know what I believe
I want to live my life within the context of what I believe to be true,
Lightfoot.. ( I would much prefer for you to say...

I'll believe what I "know" to be true.
I'll live my life within the context of what I "KNOW" to be true,

lightfoot

You can take it how ever you want to. That is entirely up to you. I in no way twisted your words or tried to put any words in your mouth and so in the future I would appreciate it if you did not attempt to do this to me. However, I do appreciate that you took the time to read and respond to this post. Take care of your self.

hephzibah.

Quote....
Rather we should question, "Am I strong enough to stand alone?"

The hardest thoughts to overcome are the thoughts we think about ourselves... unquote

Lightfoot... You should study and try to emulate what you wrote above. seems to me you had started off.... taking the first feeble steps

My father often told me "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see" and I think that has led me to my critical scientific approach to understanding my world.

I am skeptical of anything that I WANT to believe. It's a sure sign of danger that I might fool myself by ignoring the facts that don't fit and putting too much credence on those that do.

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