The Hajj, a blessed season

Eorl,

You are pushing your luck there. Do you really think Muslim 1 is here for "debate" ? :wink:

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I know fresco, but I'm not really trying to engage in debate in this case. I'm wondering if a firm belief in an afterlife gives you a lesser respect for life itself. I think it must, but I'd like to be convinced I'm wrong.

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Think of it this way: if life isn't fair, then when will everyone get what they deserved? I mean for someone to be born in poverty and has a heck of a life, as opposed to someone who is born rich and lives the best of lives. Don't you think there this a reason for people to live this cruel life? I mean if there wasn't, what's the point of living?

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That reasoning seems backwards to me Raul-7. Sure it would be nice if everyone get what they deserved...but how does the desirability of something make it likely to be true?

If anything, it's a sure sign you might be deceiving yourself?

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We believe that this life is just a precursor to the afterlife.

I believe it's true. If someone gets away with murder in this life, then when will he ever be brought to justice?

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Raul-7

So you think life/afterlife/justice are parts of some neat equation? You happy that existence is some sort of clockwork mechanism set up my some celestial clockmaker ?

And your evidence for this is what ?.....that good Muslims get killed in religious stampedes ?... that natural disasters bereave and maim the innocent ?...that a large meteor is statistically likely to devastate life on the earth some time in the future...?

The simple fact is that you have been born into (or converted to) a simplistic irrational view of existence which devalues the only life we know we have for certain. "Afterlifism" is the same philosophy as believing you will win the jackpot.

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Seems there are some really nice enticements for the after life going for the Muslim faith, as I have seen it, especially if you knock yourself off and a few other infidels for your the good of your Allah... gets you a quice pass in with all the extras.... doesn't seem to extend to the female Muslims though, though I could be wrong on both counts.

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jespah wrote:

It sounds like a wonderful experience.

I think it sounds like a bunch of idiots running around trying to make meaning out of nothing.

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Kinda like life, really.

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kickycan wrote:

jespah wrote:
It sounds like a wonderful experience.

I think it sounds like a bunch of idiots running around trying to make meaning out of nothing.

Like the Super Bowl? :wink:

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Oy!

Good one, fair in the moosh!

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<snort!>

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fresco: Lets see where that ignorance gets you; by the time you find out the truth it might be too late. And you wonder why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

kickycan: Respect other poeple's beliefs, the same way people respect yours. I don't want to start with all your "religious" holidays you celebrate that have lost their true meaning.

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Quote....fresco: Lets see where that ignorance gets you; by the time you find out the truth it might be too late. And you wonder why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world... unquote

Raul-7 Ignorance... is the reason that people who still think and most live in the 12th centry ideology,are Muslims.. I'm sure the day fresco and the rest of us are under the rule of the religiously's led Muslim empire...we will be forced to think and live the same... or be stoned to death.

kickycan: Respect other people's beliefs, the same way people respect yours. I don't want to start with all your "religious" holidays you celebrate that have lost their true meaning.

Raul-7

You are wrong.... we all should respect others religion the same way your religion respects others... so if the USA is 80 % Christian they should treat other religions the way yours would... if they did I reckon their would be a good market for stones

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Well said lightfoot !

Note however that Muslims revel in their 12th centuary origins claiming that theirs is the religion "that has not changed". You are therefore arguing against institutionalized ignorance with drastic medieval consequences for those who publicly break ranks. The internicine fighting over the holy sites between the Iranians and the Saudis is about who is demonstrably the most "orthodox"....the Iranians favouring the self flagellation approach.

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Wow, it's not every day you see someone call fresco ignorant - hopefully won't again.

I imagine fresco has at least some idea of the depth of his/her ignorance ...unlike you Raul-7.

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Ands thats why your religion is so distorted out of context that you don't know what's the difference between right and wrong. How many versions of the bible do you have? And even though the Bible warns you about the harms of alcohol; most of you still make it part of your daily life. "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise," (Proverbs 20:1).

Stoning in Islam is only done to married men and women who have committed adultery. I don't know where you got the idea that it is common in Islam.

Islam teaches us to respect all the other monotheistic religions equally.

fresco: The conflict between the Saudis (Sunah sect) and the Iranians (Shiah sect) has always been going on since the Shiah sect was created. I mean it happens with all other religious sects (Protestant vs Catholics). I mean it was practically unheard in the US for a president to be Catholic, until Kennedy (I think) was elected.

Eorl: I wasn't talking to you, I'm sure fresco has their own tongue to respond to my comments.

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Raul-7 wrote:

Stoning in Islam is only done to married men and women who have committed adultery. I don't know where you got the idea that it is common in Islam.

Quote:

Islam teaches us to respect all the other monotheistic religions equally.

How does it teach you to treat atheists like me Raul-7?

Quote:

Eorl: I wasn't talking to you, I'm sure fresco has their own tongue to respond to my comments

fresco has more tact than I.
Sorry, but I mistook this for a public forum.

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Raul 7

Interesting use of the word "only" in your stoning practices. And is it "only" hands which are cut off for stealing I wonder ?

This word "respect" which you bandy about needs a little bit of thought you know. As one recent nobel physicist puts it "Religion is an insult to the dignity of man. It takes religion to make good people do evil deeds."

I make no exceptions. I can respect a person, not a "religion". Your explanation of Islamic infighting shows that Islamic tribalism is no different to any other. Indeed the pipedream of the so-called "brotherhood of Islam" even lacks sufficient coherence to coordinate its efforts between neighbouring states. ( My Egyptian friend tells me, Arabs are more suspicious of each other than they are of Israel !).

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Raul-7 wrote:

Ands thats why your religion is so distorted out of context that you don't know what's the difference between right and wrong. How many versions of the bible do you have? And even though the Bible warns you about the harms of alcohol; most of you still make it part of your daily life. "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise," (Proverbs 20:1).

Stoning in Islam is only done to married men and women who have committed adultery. I don't know where you got the idea that it is common in Islam.

Islam teaches us to respect all the other monotheistic religions equally.

I was reading about that today. Why only monotheistic religions?

Also, re respecting other religions...I know these "holy books" are subject to endless, and weird interpretations, but I am wondering why so many appear to interpret the Koran as allowing the killing of "unbelievers"?

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The Hajj, a blessed season

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