Case #503 against blind faith--Stem Cell Research

Einherjar--

What marks the beginning of consciousness?

Anon--

As I see it, there are basically two positions, here. One states that a real human being exists at conception, the other states that it's at some other point. The fact that Christians tend to hold the former view while non-Christians tend to hold the latter, does not IMO mean that this is a "faith vs. no faith" issue.
That said, I think you make a valid point in that Christians (here at a2k, at least) seem to have enormous difficulty getting a point across without quoting the Bible.

If you want reasonable debate, why don't you drop the name calling and discuss the medical facts of the embryo's existence which lead you to believe he is not a living human being?

au1929 wrote:

I totally disagree with those who say he was elected despite his religious views therefore if he shoves them down your throat it is the will of the majority. In other words religious tyranny is an acceptable condition. To hell with the constitution and 200 years of justice.
Terrorism is not the greatest danger this nation faces. Religion and the intolerance that it always brings to the table is.
I have little doubt that those who say that would also be four square for a christian theocracy. I ask how different a concept is that from Iran with it's Moslem one.

Hey AU1929,

This normally would be off-topic. I'm also not big on cut-n-paste of entire texts, but this is what Bob Jones, III wrote to President Bush right after his election. Bold parts are for emphasis!!

Quote:

November 3, 2004

President George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

Dear Mr. President:

The media tells us that you have received the largest number of popular votes of any president in America's history. Congratulations!

In your re-election, God has graciously granted America - though she doesn't deserve it - a reprieve from the agenda of paganism. You have been given a mandate. We the people expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet. Because you seek the Lord daily, we who know the Lord will follow that kind of voice eagerly.

Don't equivocate. Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil. You owe the liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ. Honor the Lord, and He will honor you.

Had your opponent won, I would have still given thanks, because the Bible says I must (I Thessalonians 5:18). It would have been hard, but because the Lord lifts up whom He will and pulls down whom He will, I would have done it. It is easy to rejoice today, because Christ has allowed you to be His servant in this nation for another presidential term. Undoubtedly, you will have opportunity to appoint many conservative judges and exercise forceful leadership with the Congress in passing legislation that is defined by biblical norm regarding the family, sexuality, sanctity of life, religious freedom, freedom of speech, and limited government. You have four years?a brief time only?to leave an imprint for righteousness upon this nation that brings with it the blessings of Almighty God.

Christ said, "If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my father honour" (John 12:26).

The student body, faculty, and staff at Bob Jones University commit ourselves to pray for you?that you would do right and honor the Savior. Pull out all the stops and make a difference. If you have weaklings around you who do not share your biblical values, shed yourself of them. Conservative Americans would love to see one president who doesn't care whether he is liked, but cares infinitely that he does right.

Best wishes.

Sincerely your friend,

Bob Jones III
President

BJIII:lw

PS: A few moments ago I read this letter to the students in Chapel. They applauded loudly their approval.

When I told them that Tom Daschle was no longer the minority leader of the Senate, they cheered again.

On occasion, Christians have not agreed with things you said during your first term. Nonetheless, we could not be more thankful that God has given you four more years to serve Him in the White House, never taking off your Christian faith and laying it aside as a man takes off a jacket, but living, speaking, and making decisions as one who knows the Bible to be eternally true.

That's pretty clear! The rightwing Christian fanatics, cheered on by their ignorant following, have made it clear they want a theocracy which makes the bible U.S. law.

To me, that's having Christianity shoved down your throat! It makes me hate the Christian Fanatical Bastards beyond words!! It makes me hope for a backlash that crushes them right into the ground.

I didn't used to feel that way at all, but frankly, they are may times more dangerous to American freedom than any Islamic terrorist. AlQueda cannot begin to do the damage that these fanatics are doing.

If we are determined to destroy all the Islamic Jahidists, we should include the Christian Jahidists with them. A terrorist is a terrorist!!!!

AMEN!!

Anon

I may be psychotic, but I'm an American patriot that knows the difference between a Theocracy and a Democratic Republic!!

Separation of church and state ... if the Christians can't get that, then they should be crushed!! When they decided to become a political party and not a religious faith, that's when I drew the line!!

Keep your superstitions and your dogma in your church where it belongs!! If you want to cut the heads off chickens, saturate your body with it's blood, and dance to "Jesus loves Me" ... be my guest!! Just keep your f*cking hands off my country!!

Anon

I may be psychotic, but I'm an American patriot that knows the difference between a Theocracy and a Democratic Republic!!

Separation of church and state ... if the Christians can't get that, then they should be crushed!! When they decided to become a political party and not a religious faith, that's when I drew the line!!

Keep your superstitions and your dogma in your church where it belongs!! If you want to cut the heads off chickens, saturate your body with it's blood, and dance to "Jesus loves Me" ... be my guest!! Just keep your f*cking hands off my country!!

Anon

You don't know your TRUE Christianity then avon-man.
THere's those who do things in the name of God and I know he would be displeased very much so at those things.
They do not worship the same God we do tho.

Not EVERY Christian likes Bush!!!

Anon-Voter wrote:

I may be psychotic, but I'm an American patriot that knows the difference between a Theocracy and a Democratic Republic!!

Separation of church and state ... if the Christians can't get that, then they should be crushed!! When they decided to become a political party and not a religious faith, that's when I drew the line!!

Keep your superstitions and your dogma in your church where it belongs!! If you want to cut the heads off chickens, saturate your body with it's blood, and dance to "Jesus loves Me" ... be my guest!! Just keep your f*cking hands off my country!!

Anon

You don't know your TRUE Christianity then avon-man.
THere's those who do things in the name of God and I know he would be displeased very much so at those things.
They do not worship the same God we do tho.
And just for the broken record...

Not EVERY Christian likes Bush!!!

How many times must we make these points???

Anon-Voter wrote:

I may be psychotic, but I'm an American patriot that knows the difference between a Theocracy and a Democratic Republic!!

Separation of church and state ... if the Christians can't get that, then they should be crushed!! When they decided to become a political party and not a religious faith, that's when I drew the line!!

Keep your superstitions and your dogma in your church where it belongs!! If you want to cut the heads off chickens, saturate your body with it's blood, and dance to "Jesus loves Me" ... be my guest!! Just keep your f*cking hands off my country!!

Anon

Your country? I'm sorry but, I can't and would never try to force anyone to believe as I do. It's impossible anyways. It would do no good.

I think a few laws could be adjusted but, to create a theocracy for everyone? No way.

Anon-Voter,

Cuts heads off chickens and saturate ourselves in their blood? Now, I know in southern Louisiana they do practice voodoo and I have heard they do this but I don't know of any Christian religion that does this. If you are serious, can you tell me where you heard of this so I can look it up.

Anon, I don't have a problem with keeping prayer out of schools, etc. Fine. Let the parents teach their children the way to go. I am for offering elective classes if there is a large enough call for it. Not free classes mind you, but a choice. Sure, I'd like to keep the stuff there but whatever is decided as law on this, I will abide by.

Still Anon-Voter, I do not believe anyone can just toss aside the things in their lives that make up who they are to cast a vote. Our morals, standards, ethics and principles are considered in all of our decisions, aren't they? Like I have pointed out before, there is nothing in the United States Constitution that says I MUST or MUST NOT consider any specific thing when deciding on what or who to vote for. This is the right of all Americans.

I do understand the public outcry at the "Christianity at all costs" Christians. Fortunately, they do not speak for ALL Christians. They just have the money and the power to be out there in the public and make themselves the ones that are more known.

Santaria and Voodoo

When African slaves were imported to America, they were taught Christianity, but some people continued to hold their traditional beliefs. The result was a blending of traditional West African beliefs with Christianity. Today, many Afro-American folk religions continue to be practiced in the Caribbean, particularly among the poor and less educated people. They include Voodoo in Haiti, Santeria in Cuba, Shango in Trinidad, and Kuminia or Pocomania in Jamaica.

The Afro-American folk religions emphasize magical practices designed to bring good luck to their devotees or harm to their enemies. Ceremonies often include the ritual sacrifice of animals. The religions worship the spirits of the dead, but the spirits given the names of Christian saints. This blending of beliefs allowed the Africans to retain their native faith while appearing to convert to Christianity.

The folk religions also provide an additional function, particularly in the remote sections of Haiti. Many practitioners of the religions are able to use tropical plants to relieve pain and cure illnesses. This is the only medical care available to some people.

Many people of the Caribbean profess to be Christians, but feel comfortable with the rituals of the folk religions. In 1998, Pope John Paul II visited Cuba, where he urged Catholics to reject the practice of Santeria. In addition to the Caribbean, the folk religions are also practiced in American cities with large Caribbean populations. They include New Orleans, Miami, New York City, and Los Angeles.

I may be psychotic, but I'm an American patriot............. Just keep your f*cking hands off my country!!

Anon

Anon-Voter wrote:

I may be psychotic, but I'm an American patriot............. Just keep your f*cking hands off my country!!

Anon

Yeah some patriot. You apparently believe that some citizens of this country, (OUR country, you and me and everyone, not just yours), have no right to participate in the same way you do.

Free speech, voting rights, running for elective office, etc for you but not for others, right?

That's not patriotism, Anon. That's totalitarianism. There is a difference.

real life wrote:

Anon-Voter wrote:

I may be psychotic, but I'm an American patriot............. Just keep your f*cking hands off my country!!

Anon

Yeah some patriot. You apparently believe that some citizens of this country, (OUR country, you and me and everyone, not just yours), have no right to participate in the same way you do.

Free speech, voting rights, running for elective office, etc for you but not for others, right?

That's not patriotism, Anon. That's totalitarianism. There is a difference.

One thing you people know ALL about is totalitarianism ...

Anon

You boys and girls just keep pounding away with your religious tripe. Pretty soon, everyone is going to get tired of your BS!! Don't be real surprised when people in general start hating your guts!

Anon