@SerSo,
SerSo wrote:
Okie, you seem to be convinced that leftist ideology when put into practice a priori leads to establishment of a totalitarian regime in the long run while those who preach free enterprise and the type of a government that never interfere in economy, property rights, labour regulations etc. are right by nature meaning that all atrocities that were ever committed by right-wingers were abuses of the generally good idea.
I think leftist idealogy tends to much more often lead to a totalitarian regime. The more leftist it is, the more likely. For example, there are democratic socialist countries that are not totally socialized, only perhaps half way or so, and it also depends upon the populace, their history, culture, and relative willingness to favor. As a country is more socialized and requires more social participation as a group in aspects of life, not only the economy, but property rights, religion, and thought, the more likely a totalitarian regime or dictator will be necessary to maintain.
Quote:You have every right to think that libertarianism is the right thing and all attempts to achieve social justice are dangerous but this your idea sounds very totalitarian.
You hit on a term, "social justice." This is a buzzword, a goal or ultimate end of leftward leaning societies or countries. It essentially means that the individual is sacrificed for the whole, in theory. Since it requires curtailment of individual responsibility and freedom, it by nature will cause individuals to chafe under this system, and want to be released from it. However, if a large portion or even majority of the people desire the system of "common good," they will support a strong central state or dictator to maintain it.
Quote:My point is that practical implementation of ANY social theory might result in brutality, dictatorship and oppression. Especially it so happens when you start thinking that only your vision is correct while all those who disagree need to be obstructed for the common good. Christianity, Islam, communism, aggressive promotion of democracy all have bad records here. I can imagine somebody killing people for family values... Or criminal prosecution for denial of freedom...
If you have freedom of the individual, freedom of thought, freedom of worship, freedom of speech, no force is required except to protect us from each other, and to protect us from the government, and that is essentially what I thought America was about. In other words, laws and enforcement are required to protect us, our persons, our property, our freedom of thought and speech, and so on, from efforts by others to take them away from us.
Quote:Thugs with the set of mind you described in the beginning of this thread will always exist. Society must therefore be "charisma-proof". Certain restrictions preventing powerful and popular individuals from gaining full power exist in many countries. Division of powers is now a generally accepted principle, there are other procedures in place like limitation of the term in office etc. Answering your question as to what produces ruthless dictators I would answer that dictators appear where such procedures do not exist or do not actually work. No 100% guarantee, unfortunately, very often interests prevail over principles.
Division and limitation of powers are fine and dandy, but when central power is required to regulate, administer, and insure the common good, a more socialistic state, the state will in fact be larger and more powerful, thus more often leading to the elimination of the limitation of power, I think.
Quote:I agree with you only in one thing. No matter who opposed Mussolini, Hitler or some petty local "Führer". Stalin's main enemy was Trotsky, which did not make Trotsky any better.
Yes, sometimes power hungry individuals are more interested in their own power than the idealogy they are pushing, or the idealogy that they reside in. Totalitarian regimes or cultures can produce many individuals that want to rise to the top, and so they end up battling each other, and they may sometimes do it under the guise of supposedly better or different policies, but in reality their policies do not differ tremendously, they are still of the same general brand.
I believe America is or has been a highly unique success story in the history of man, and I believe it is why it can serve as a measuring stick to the judgement of left vs right, the "common good" or "collectivism," vs individual good, freedom and responsibility of the individual. We are in danger now of losing that grand dream of freedom, the right to succeed or fail, and slip toward the European model of socialism, collectivism, and the sacrifice of individual freedom and responsibility, because more people want what other people have and they see socialism as a way to get what they want.
