What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
What was your political argument again?

Or your Christian argument for that matter?

They are not that far back up the page Foxy.

Perhaps they are, but I require a bit of interpretation to know what you are arguing if it is your opinion that they were not addressed.

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Quote the parts you didn't understand Foxy and I'll do my best to address your points.

The Christian argument is in the Redburn chapter 37. Which can be read online. It's in Schopenauer too. And the Good Samaritan parable.

It wasn't my opinion that they were not addressed. It is a fact.

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@spendius,

I didn't understand any of it Spendi, ergo my request for a reworded summary of the point you are making.

I don't know how the Good Samaritan parable applies. Socialists and would-be dictators use it to make the point that there is justification to rob Peter to pay Paul. Modern American conservatives use the parable to point out what true charity looks like, and the one dispensing it voluntarily is to be commended, admired, and emulated.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
Spendi - stop this maudlin' line of chattering and consider that Foxfyre......
If you have read your link properly, as I assume you have, you will understand that I am not free to discuss such delicate matters. It's all hush-hush. Even the fact that I don't already work for them is hush-hush...

Ha! That's what they all say - but they mostly can spell Schopenhauer, so I know you aren't legit. No matter, but look up German spellings before quoting any.

Btw, and listen up: you want to hang out with us that's well and good, we like Brits, but you'll NEVER under any circumstances WHATSOEVER pick on any of MY friends ever again. The "special relationship" can only continue as long as you agree with this one condition Smile

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@Foxfyre,

"What right has any body in the wide world to smile and be glad when sights like this were to be seen. It was enough to turn the heart to gall."

One is not robbing Peter to pay Paul. One is trying to get Peter to smile without maggots in it.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
What was your political argument again? Or your Christian argument for that matter?
They are not that far back up the page Foxy.

Foxfyre - how you permit gentlemen to address you as "Foxy" is none of my business, but in a sudden sweep of factchecking (one word, these days, wonders neverceasing) I discovered that Spendius is willing to back off his assorted assertions on matters religious and political. Take his offer and run, I say, so Okie and others here can proceed with the discussion Smile

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@High Seas,

Quote:

Ha! That's what they all say. Listen up, you want to hang out with us that's well and good, we like Brits, but you'll NEVER under any circumstances WHATSOEVER pick on any of MY friends ever again. The "special relationship" can only continue as long as you agree with this one condition

Not that I would ever do that HS. But there are elements who are not that bothered about the SR.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

.................
The Christian argument is in the Redburn chapter 37. Which can be read online. It's in Schopenauer too. And the Good Samaritan parable. .....

Chapter and verse, dammit! And get German spellings right. Get sober, too, or at the very least meet all your foreign agents before lunch Smile

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@High Seas,

Quote:

so Okie and others here can proceed with the discussion

Do you mean the assertions and counter assertions that this or that dictator is left wing or right wing as the cap fits?

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

..
One is not robbing Peter to pay Paul. One is trying to get Peter to smile without maggots in it.

Ah, you have to wait for George OB to address the 1905 Tsushima straits debacle of the Russian fleet, involving maggots in the sailors' feed. Whether he's going to get Tolstoyan about it and cover the St Petersburg massacre of 1906 I don't know, I never interfere in matters of boats. Meanwhile you've been warned Smile

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@High Seas,

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or at the very least meet all your foreign agents before lunch

The sun is too bright at that time of day and it reveals all their crow's feet.

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@High Seas,

Quote:

Meanwhile you've been warned

That's true. My Daddy warned me. I should have listened. My best mate once wagged his finger at me strenuously in the pub.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
so Okie and others here can proceed with the discussion

Do you mean the assertions and counter assertions that this or that dictator is left wing or right wing as the cap fits?

I don't know if I've posted this before, although I have referred to Goldberg, but he pretty much sums it up:

What's the book about?
It's a revisionist history. It's an attempt to reconfigure, or I would say correct, the standard understanding of the political and ideological context that frames most of the ideological debates that we have had since, basically, World War II. There's this idea that the further right you go the closer you get to Nazism and fascism, and the further left you go the closer you get to decency and all good things, or at least having the right intentions in your heart.

For 60 years most historians have been putting fascism on the right, or conservative, side of the political spectrum. What are you able to see that they weren't?
There are a lot of historians who get fascism basically right. There are a lot of historians who don't. I think the Marxists have been part and parcel of a basic propaganda campaign for a very long time, but there are plenty of historians who understand what fascism was and are actually quite honest about it.

To sort of start the story, the reason why we see fascism as a thing of the right is because fascism was originally a form of right-wing socialism. Mussolini was born a socialist, he died a socialist, he never abandoned his love of socialism, he was one of the most important socialist intellectuals in Europe and was one of the most important socialist activists in Italy, and the only reason he got dubbed a fascist and therefore a right-winger is because he supported World War I.

Originally being a fascist meant you were a right-wing socialist, and the problem is that we've incorporated these European understandings of things and then just dropped the socialist. In the American context fascists get called right-wingers even though there is almost no prominent fascist leader -- starting with Mussolini and Hitler -- who if you actually went about and looked at their economic programs, or to a certain extent their social program, where you wouldn't locate most if not all of those ideas on the ideological left in the American context.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/01/11/goldberg/story.gif

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@okie,

Hmm, Goldberg. He has some ideas which were quite popular in German history as well, being in the "frog-bashing business": "the total destruction of France".

Fortunately, we got over that, as well as we are glad that the allies helped to get rid of such ideas.

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@okie,

It's really quite funny the way Goldberg and okie discard history and try to rewrite it.

Quote:

the only reason he got dubbed a fascist and therefore a right-winger is because he supported World War I.

The only reason Mussolini was dubbed a fascist was because he supported WW1? That statement in and of itself reveals how little Goldberg knows of history... Mussolini referred to himself as a "fascist" and wrote the "Doctrine of Fascism."
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.html

Quote:

In 1932 Mussolini wrote (with the help of Giovanni Gentile) an entry for the Italian Encyclopedia on the definition of fascism.

Quote:

.Fascism [is] the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism

It's really quite funny they way okie demands we read Hitler's Mein Kampf and the 25 points of the Nazi party but then he completely discards Mussolini's writings on Fascism where Mussolini clearly states it is the complete opposite of Socialism.

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@parados,

Quote:

It's really quite funny the way Goldberg and okie discard history and try to rewrite it.

I don't think it's funny at all. I think it's pathetic.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

It's really quite funny they way okie demands we read Hitler's Mein Kampf and the 25 points of the Nazi party but then he completely discards Mussolini's writings on Fascism where Mussolini clearly states it is the complete opposite of Socialism.

Well, Hitler and other NSDAP-heads wrote similar - okie doesn't want to read that either.
So why should he read Mussolini?

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@parados,

Can you provide the exact quote, Parados, I noticed you may have left out the word "Marxian" in front of the word socialism, which may change the meaning pretty drastically? Perhaps a pretty slick switcheroo there?

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@Walter Hinteler,

It doesn't help okie to read anything, because he ends up misinterpreting them anyhoos. Has anyone agreed with okie on anything about concepts or any reading material? Maybe Foxie and ican, but they're made from the same cloth.

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@okie,

Quote:

Perhaps a pretty slick switcheroo there?

Socialism vs Marxian socialism? You think there is a large difference? Let's see how far you really want to go with this argument okie...

So.. let me see. Are you arguing that Marxian socialism is NOT far left?
If Marxian socialism IS far left then Mussolini would have been arguing that Fascism is far right, would he not?

If you think Fascism is socialism then you would be arguing that socialism occupies both the far left and the far right of the political scale. Are you sure you want to make that argument?

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What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

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