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What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

 
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 09:36 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

No, i meant Beethoven. Just because you are unfamiliar with a long standing joke among the Germans and Austrians doesn't mean it isn't real.


Perhaps you would check your own familiarity with said long-standing joke by asking someone else - unless you, too, have joined the "I'm ignorant of the facts so therefore I have a strong opinion" confrerie here and in the current presidency. Hope that's not the case.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 09:36 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Quote:
But that's oonly because I'm not a native English speaker.

So you would have if you could have?

I could have done it - with perhaps different words.
okie wrote:

What really upsets you, Walter, is that I don't agree with you and that I am making an excellent case that Hitler was a leftist, which in fact he was.


No. And it' still not true.

okie wrote:

Now, this is important, the classification of Hitler as a leftist is made in context with the current understanding of left vs right as it is currently understood in America, not in 1930's Germany, and I think this is where you are stuck.


Well, I suppose any other historian would look perplex if you use today's terms and from where you live for something that happened in the past and on a different continent.
(And I'd thought, we were talking about the early 1920's - at least your famous 25 points were made at that time.)

Or do you call those ancient Italian people who 'produced' the writings in temples etc "software engineers"?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 09:39 am
@okie,
okie, perhaps you forgot, the american public elected obama to be the president of the USA.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 09:40 am
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

Setanta wrote:

No, i meant Beethoven. Just because you are unfamiliar with a long standing joke among the Germans and Austrians doesn't mean it isn't real.


Perhaps you would check your own familiarity with said long-standing joke by asking someone else - unless you, too, have joined the "I'm ignorant of the facts so therefore I have a strong opinion" confrerie here and in the current presidency. Hope that's not the case.


Well, it's indeed a joke in Germany, still published very often.
Never heard or seen it different, in German. (And there are quite a few responses FROM Austria to it as well!)
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 09:48 am
@okie,
I forgot this earlier post about Chavez also, which pretty much nails down the background and reasons behind why Chavez is what he is, another screwed up guy running a leftist government. Foxfyre, he does in fact more or less fit the template.

okie wrote:

okie wrote:

This was a study of the childhood environments, conditions, and personality types, and it turned out from my research that there were indeed common characteristics and environments that produced such dictators, from their childhood on. I've categorized these factors as follows:

1 - Dysfunctional family and troubled childhood that extends into adulthood. This includes troubled spousal relationships and other relationships as adults.
2 - Rejection and/or hate for religious belief, sometimes despite training as a child. As they grow into adulthood, they have a hatred or unresolved resentment toward certain groups, races, or religion.
3 - They perceive injustice from childhood and develop a burning desire to dominate, gain power, and right the wrongs toward society and to them as they view it. Typically there is a hate for business and private enterprise, as it is viewed as unfair and the cause of much injustice and suffering, and religion is also viewed as a failure, so government and they are the hope of righting the wrongs and creating their vision of utopia on earth.



Interesting, as Hugo Chavez seems to gain more of the limelight, I think a look at him, in regard to the above. I think it is eery, once again similar stuff appears, as it did for the original ones that I included in my first post, for Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, Fidel Castro, and Saddam Hussein.

http://www.semp.us/publications/biot_reader.php?BiotID=469

"Hugo Rafael Chavez Frias was born poor on July 28, 1954, in Sabaneta, located on the vast flat plains called Los Llanos, in the state of Barinas, Venezuela, in a house with a dirt floor and a roof made of palm leaves. He was the second of six brothers. His parents were schoolteachers who dispatched him and his older brother to his paternal grandmother’s house for their upbringing when Hugo’s mother Elena bore yet a third son. Elena has said that she “didn’t want to have children…I don’t know, I didn’t like them, it didn’t seem appealing, but since God told me, ‘That is what you are going to do,’ I got married and a month later I was pregnant.” (4) Hugo has said that he “didn’t love his mother”, but “respected her”. (4)

Hugo sold his grandmother’s homemade sweetened fruits on the street. Even so, she did not have enough money to buy Hugo shoes, which barred him from attending school until she found something to cover his feet. Hugo was a reluctant altar boy for one year because his mother wanted him to become a Catholic priest. While an altar boy, he developed a deep distrust of religious hierarchy as he polished religious figurines, including one of Jesus, whom he viewed “a rebel”, like himself.

When Chavez was around twelve years old (around 1964 or 1965), he came under the wing of the long-bearded old-school Communist Jose Esteban Ruiz Guevara, who had two sons the age of Hugo and who owned a large library filled with Marxist and other revolutionary material. Ruiz proselytized Hugo in Barinas, the state capital where Hugo and his older brother moved with his grandmother to study at a large secondary school (education in Sabaneta ended with primary school). Hugo’s relationship with Ruiz was the first of a long series of associations with old school Communists that continues today with Cuba’s Fidel Castro, who is 28 years senior to Chavez. In addition to Communism, Chavez worshipped his idol, the Venezuelan revolutionary Simon Bolivar (1783-1830) after whom he named his own revolution (the Bolivarian Revolution).

While Chavez received his political indoctrination from the Ruiz family and his secular education from the secondary school, he pursued a muted social life. “As a young man, Chavez had two girlfriends, who were considered by other students as unattractive. Chavez too was widely considered unattractive, and these girlfriends were more interested in two of Chavez’s best friends, the Ruiz brothers, than in Chavez himself. Chavez also had his share of social upsets; for example, when a young woman whom he considered attractive refused to pay any attention to him, Chavez found a rotting donkey head on the side of the road and left it in front of her door.”

Hugo chose the oldest military academy in Latin America, the Venezuelan Academy of Military Sciences (founded 1810) for his post-secondary-school education because, he said, the army had good baseball coaches and he was a good left-handed pitcher. “The Venezuelan Army has always been made up of a strong working- and lower-class component, its barracks filled with men from humble backgrounds drawn by the real possibility of ascending to the highest ranks,” note Marcano and Tyszka. (6) Chavez quickly acquired a taste for life in the military. He liked being a soldier and soon believed that the military order was so good that it should always prevail over the civil experience. He continued to spend time with his Communist friends every time he visited Barinas. Soon the group of friends participated in the creation of the left-wing party known as Causa Radical, which supported the labor struggle in Venezuela.

After graduating from the military academy, Chavez began to lead a double life as a “neutral” soldier while conspiring with others in cells to overthrow the government. In 1983, Chavez grew weary and wanted to retire from the military, but the old-time Communist Ruiz, knowing better than Chavez the latter’s value in the military to a leftist revolution said, “No, stay. You say it’s a load of ****. Well, stay in and get rid of that **** you see in the army!” (7) In other words, he strongly advised Chavez to continue to work in a clandestine manner to find the “breaking point” that would generate anarchy within the military realm. Chavez came around to the old-time Communist’s way of thinking, and proposed to his comrades that they act as a guerrilla group within the armed forces to undertake violent actions, such as blowing up electricity posts. (7) Cooler heads prevailed and delayed the coup d’état and revolution in order to “grow, build strength, and arm themselves…the path of the classic conspiracy.”

Venezuela’s President Chavez, however, as part of his seemingly innate rudeness, recently likened U.S. President George W. Bush to “a devil” after the latter gave a speech at the United Nations in September 2006. Chavez said, “As the spokesman of imperialism, he [Bush] came to share his nostrums to try to preserve the current pattern of domination, exploitation and pillage of the peoples of the world. An Alfred Hitchcock movie could use it as a scenario. I would even propose a title: ‘The Devil's Recipe’.” Chavez continued in his inimitable theatrical style, “The devil came here yesterday. And it smells of sulfur still today.” Then Chavez crossed himself. (19) Ever colorful, Chavez then held up a book by Noam Chomsky on imperialism and said it encapsulated his arguments: “The American empire is doing all it can to consolidate its hegemonistic system of domination, and we cannot allow him [Bush] to do that. We cannot allow world dictatorship to be consolidated.” "


Okie comment: the above paragraph sounds like some of the lefties on this forum.

http://www.semp.us/_images/biots/Biot469PhotoF.jpg



okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 09:54 am
@okie,
By the way, is that book mentioned in the above post the same one given to Obama as a gift, and graciously accepted? If not, a very similar one.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 09:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The joke is very familiar to me as well, Walter, though with "Mozart" substituted for "Beethoven".

Mozart too was German, as you know - that's what the joke is about!
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 09:57 am
@High Seas,
That's some funny stuff High Seas. Hilarious. Rolling Eyes Perhaps you should have used "scripting languages" in your first joke, then I might have got it. I tend to write my processor code in assembly or C and AI wouldn't deal with simple output. You might want to keep your day job. Your jokes suck.


Glad to see you are still contributing like you always do to the topic.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 09:57 am
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

Mozart too was German, as you know.


Well, yes, if you#re very correct, of course he was born in the Holy Roma Empire of German Nation, though not many would consider the Archbishopric of Salzburg as 'Germany' but more likely as 'Austria'. Wink
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 09:58 am
@okie,
Isn't America GREAT okie? Everything is wonderful here.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 09:59 am
HS wrote:
Mozart too was German, as you know.

You sure? Twisted Evil

I thought he was Italian: Mozart est là! (Mozarella).
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 10:03 am
@Francis,
Francis wrote:

HS wrote:
Mozart too was German, as you know.

You sure? Twisted Evil

I thought he was Italian: Mozart est là! (Mozarella).



French. At least the singer's name is "France" and the "parole" is in French:

Mozart est là
Ce je n'sais quoi
Que d'autres n'ont pas
Qui nous met dans un drôle d'état
Mozart est là
Mozart là

High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 10:03 am
@Francis,
Et tu, Francis?! This is getting so out of control that I will post a German joke, for which I of course would substitute ANY German chancellor with left-wing leanings (though must point out to Okie with respect that, while that list is sadly long, the name of Hitler can't reasonably be included in it):

Quote:
Bei Helmut Kohl klingelt das Telefon. Als er abnimmt, sagt der Anrufer: "Guten Tag, ich möchte gern den Bundeskanzler sprechen!" Kohl: "Tut mir leid, ich bin nicht mehr Kanzler. Da müssen sie jetzt woanders anrufen." Der Anrufer legt auf. Zwei Minuten später klingelt das Telefon wieder. Helmut Kohl ran und hat wieder den Anrufer von eben am Rohr: "Guten Tag, ich möchte gern den Bundeskanzler sprechen!" Kohl: "Tut mir leid, ich bin nicht mehr Kanzler, habe ich das eben nicht schon gesagt?! Sie sind hier falsch!" Der Anrufer legt wieder auf. Wieder eine Minute später: Das Telefon klingelt erneut. Wieder der selbe Anrufer: "Guten Tag, ich möchte gerne den Bundeskanzler sprechen!" Kohl: "Also wie oft soll ich Ihnen das denn noch sagen? ICH BIN NICHT MEHR DER KANZLER!" Anrufer: "Ja ich weiß, aber ich kann's nicht oft genug hören..."

Quelle:www.witze-fun.de
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 10:04 am
@Walter Hinteler,
LOL - sung to the tune of Figaro ci, Figaro la?!
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 10:17 am
@High Seas,
Old joke!

German friends told me that one at the time of Helmut Schmidt..
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 10:20 am
@Francis,
Lots of variations in theUSA too.

But still funny.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 10:24 am
@Francis,
Francis wrote:

Old joke!..German friends told me that one at the time of Helmut Schmidt..

You have clairvoyant friends - this is truly wonderful; do they, perhaps, also do economic forecasting?!

PS sorry to all those who have no German, or don't know that Schmidt was voted out of office in 1982 and was succeeded by Kohl, who remained in that office until 1998. - The date inversion in Francis's statement is obviously wrong.

0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 10:28 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Well, yes, if you#re very correct, of course he was born in the Holy Roma Empire of German Nation, though not many would consider the Archbishopric of Salzburg as 'Germany' but more likely as 'Austria'.

I think you're uncritically repeating the propaganda of modern Austrian authorities, who would have us believe that Beethoven was an Austrian and Hitler wasn't.

In the case of Mozart, we have clear and convincing evidence from his letters. Mozart consistently, and emphatically, referred to himself as a German (ein Teutscher). Perhaps we should defer to his own classification rather than impose our own.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 10:46 am
@Thomas,
Did Hitler refer to himself as an Austrian? He was born there but did he emphasize that when he was campaigning for the German people to adore him?

Did Beethoven refer to himself as an Austrian? He studied there but did he refer to himself as Austrian and not German?

Does Ah-nold think of himself as a German? Or a Californian? Or American citizen?

Because of Mozart's family ties with Salzburg, which did not become Austrian until after his death, I am quite sure that he did consider himself German despite his strong identification with Vienna.

My Italian relatives all refer to themselves as "Italian" when referring to the way they speak, cook, eat, relate to each other as family, but they do not think of themselves as Italians from Italy, I don't believe even those who immigrated from there, but all think of themselves as citizens of America. (They also all enormously enjoy Italian jokes.)

And while the dynamics of all that are interesting, what 'ruthless dictator' or any kind of dictator or anybody aspiring to high office of any kind does not attempt to sell himself as one of the people he wants to put him into power?
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 10:49 am
HS wrote:
The date inversion in Francis's statement is obviously wrong.


HS, I thought you knew me better. I made no mistake or date inversion about that joke.

I heard it in Germany after Helmut Schmidt was no more Bundeskanzler.

At the time, obviously, the joke was aimed at him and not at the other Helmut (Kohl).
 

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