I agree with all that's been said so far, but I go back further than what provoked Martin Luther. The gyrations and manipulations of the early Christian groups and how canon became canon is a fascinating study. It started right after Jesus' death apparently, first within the disciples then with the battles between Peter, who seemed more interested in spreading the message of Jesus, vs. Paul, who seemed more interested in spreading the message about Jesus and the message of Paul. I'm currently in an anti-Paul mode but with more study I could become anti-Peter as well.
I also see a large similarity between what provoked Jesus at the Temple and what provoked Martin Luther, or is that what you were saying, Husker?
I won't answer for Husker--but I agree with the Jesus/Martin Luther comparison.
I like this discussion as well.
Not too crazy about some aspects of what Paul said. I do think most of his letters were full of insightful information--but, yes, I think he may have been the first to add unnecessarily (and incorrectly) to Jesus's message.
that's very true jpin!
somwetimes I think that the more the church pushes me to do things, the more the church leaders want to "discuss" things, the more I feel that I'm further away from God. When i told the church leader how I dislike being pressured and that somehow, I just feel not as close to God any more, the church leaders got soooo mad!
Tell you the truth, I've never heard anyone tell me this but this church leader basically told me: "It's obvious that you don't want to believe now because you think your life is perfect." (which is false, how can i think my life is perfect?) Anyways, she proceeded to pray for me and in the prayer, she prayed that God would have mercy on me and would send a catastrophe that would soften my heart.
I was like, great, if I don't believe in their faith right away, I'm going to receive a catastrophe in my life. That's why I begin to question the idea of conservative/liberal Christian.
Anyways, I just want to say that I found another church nearby; it's a Methodist-Episcopal Church. I hope I can find what I'm looking for there...
Oh my! I'm glad you have enough faith in yourself to see that the group you were with was not a good fit for you, werthn. I hope the new church you've found works out for you. You're always welcome to stick around here as well. We'll totally confuse you but you'll get to see all sides of religion :wink:
Ugh. It definitely sounds like God was not in that church. Praying for a catastrophe to soften your heart? WTF. Knowing that God has a sense of humor, you might want to watch and see if a catastrophe doesn't come her way.
What I can't reconcile is this-- re the Christians who believe that God "sends calamity, illness and other crap" to "bring His children closer to Him", or to discipline them...
A) This seems designed to make people grovel in fear. That's no relationship with God--or anybody.
But, moreso,
B) ..so then, do they think that when bad things happen to other people, they somehow deserve it? And, if bad things don't happen to them, are they under the impression that they're sinless...? ....in God's favor?
I think that is quite destructive thinking. I think people who believe it are tend to be pompous and deluded about their own sin.
We should start a church.
heh
Rule #1 at the Church of Jesus and Bein' Nice:
Nobody can preach.
Yeah, but you know it would go all down hill given enough time. I think that's just the nature of the beast, unfortunately. I guess we could think of A2K as our "church".
Rule #2 at the Church of Jesus and Bein' Nice:
Don't Talk about the Church of Jesus and Bein' Nice.
I'd consider joining, Lash but join is a four letter word. It took me ten years to join the one I belong to now. I just don't think I've got it in me to join another one. But, for the record, I agree also.
J_B is an Honorary Friend of the Church of Jesus and Bein' Nice.
It's an honor to be an Honorary Friend.
I'm certainly a liberal Christian as well - although struck - by tradition - to some rather conservative habits/attitudes.
That's alright, Walter. We all have our limitations. You are welcome too.
I believe I am some where in the middle. I have attended a very Liberal Christian Church and a Conservative Christian Church. It seems to me really the main belief about Jesus Christ is the same, what differs is the interpretation of certain parts of the Bible. I found that more liberal churches tend to look at a different interpretations besides what is strictly written in the King James Version, whereas more conservative tend to stick to that version and interpretation solely. One other thing, one church I attended was so liberal that they even stated you should read the Bible in a different way - they do not believe in the literal stories - like Noah and the flood for example.
I also heard many negative comments about the "Church". There are many churches and not one overseeing church. Each church is different - even those within the same title - Baptist, Catholic, etc. Some of those negative comments are completely untrue in many churches, just because the ones you are familar are such.
