what is the point in life if there is no God, etc.

well, i'm not quite as cynical as Voltaire, but i certainly can't stomach Panglossian optimism. (Pangloss is supposedly a parody of Leibnitz, of whom i know nil except that he invented calculus independently, but i suppose Pangloss personifies the Enlightenment.) since this thread is in the Spirituality & Religion forum, i'd say that the Book of Job contains a fair amount of cynicism, if you leave out the happy ending. been a while since i read Candide, but if i remember everyone sort of just gets on with their life instead of philosphizing about it, and that seems sensible to me. i think nothing in excess is good advice when applied to philosophy.

All ya need to know about life can be learned from your dog;
If ya can't eat it, fight it, chase it, play with it, roll in it, sleep on it, or mate with it, lift your leg to it and keep on lookin'.

Thanks, that was a nice reply.

Geez, sometimes I feel like anything said on the Spirituality forum is a carcass being left to the hyenas!

I was simply trying to understand where a question like this would come from. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has been there at some point in their tiny lives. It isn't 'stupid' or 'horse pooey'. It was simply one way of being in the world and valid. It can bring real pain if that is how the person truly feels.
Without being able to speak about the inconsistencies and odd things that we feel, what the hell is the point of talking?

I infer you sense yourself victimized - that hardly is the intent, nor is it the case; a question was presented by you, and discussion ensued. Apparently your viewpoint differs from that expressed by others, and it seems as well you take exception to the levity and whimsy that came into the discussion. Have I got that pretty close to right so far?

timber,
Yes, you have gotten it pretty close to right.
Re-reading I do see that it was a bit of an over-reaction. My frustration got the better of me.

I've never read Voltaire. I don't know what the hell half of you are talking about on this thread. It sounds to be to be the same old reiteration that I see everywhere "Just live". Well, that's great for those who are already doing it. For those who post qs like this though; if they are asking seriously, all the banter is just dust.

My apologies. I am simply a bit frustrated.

Nothing to apologize for. Don't get frustrated, get behind your argument and press it. This isn't about winning or losing, its about the exchange of ideas - critiques, endorsements, rebuttals, expansions, even diversions (even if it sometimes plays like an online version of Demolition Derby). Be part of it, or just watch it, or wander around the carnival here and do something else somewhere else - don't get frustrated, get busy.

What anyone takes away from a discussion here depends just about equally on what one brings to the game, and what one does with it once the piece is put into play. Now, there's no way to deny play here gets pretty intense sometimes, we've got some pretty enthusiastic players - some are knowlegeable, erudite, skilled and enthusiastic, others are ... well, enthusiastic . But its play - just pixels on a screen; nobody leaves the field on a stretcher.

And I appreciate your observation that half the folks on this thread don't know what the hell they're talking about; I'm sure thats the case, since I can think of no reason this thread might be any different than any other thread in that regard :wink:

i helped the thread go off track by taking up the discussion of Voltaire, so i'm sorry it bothered flushd. i didn't bother responding to the original question, or even the follow-ups, because i simply don't know. all i could give would be my opinion. i think i'm on safe ground in saying a person should do whatever the person feels like, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. i don't know that even religious folk would dispute that too strongly, because God must have given us free will expecting us to exercise it. i personally spend most of my free time finding out as much about the world and people as i can; i've been highly curious as long as i remember, and the curiosity extends to philosophic questions as well, so perhaps one day i'll find the answer to questions like the one that started this thread, in which case i'll return and post it. ;-)

after i posted the above, i realized i sounded like a libertarian. so let's be clear that i'm libertarian like J.S. Mill, not Ayn Rand. i suppose i also believe in some sort of categorical imperative, so it's good to ask yourself what would happen if everyone did what you're about to do.

Some people are born philosophers. They've gotten down to the fact that there is no absolute point in life.

The problem lies in deciding what to do given that fact.

Only YOU can decide what to do given that fact.



Here you are referring to purpose. If you hold that there is purpose in nature, and many people do not, then the purpose of passing on our genes is to reproduce to perpetuate the species. Or it can be explained that love evolved because it was beneficial, for the most part, to the process of reproduction.

Given that the core function of a bureaucracy is to perpetuate itself while expanding its sphere of influence within its domain, one reasonably may consider "Nature" to be the ultimate bureaucracy.


Not so far fetched, thinking about it - looking around, there's little to contraindicate the "Designed by a Committee" impression :cool:

Have you taken a walk and seemed lost? You don't give up do you? You just keep going and find landmarks that you recognize or seek help from passers-by in a street, houses on a highway or high ground in less developed area to get your bearings. You rest if need be and walk to the nearest sign of help.

I am not religious but I am open to the idea that maybe there is purpose to all this that is not visible to me.

Mary: Let me ask you something.
[Grabs his hand]
Mary: Why are you alive?
John Preston: [Breaks free] I'm alive... I live... to safeguard the continuity of this great society. To serve My Country.
Mary: It's circular. You exist to continue your existence. What's the point?
John Preston: What's the point of your existence?
Mary: To feel. 'Cause you've never done it, you can never know it. But it's as vital as breath. And without it, without love, without anger, without sorrow, breath is just a clock... ticking.

Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
If that's all there is, my friend
Then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze
And have a ball
If that's all there is . . .

It's a lovely name is Mary.