What do Christians have against forgiveness?

ebrown p
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 10:36 pm

So my question becomes this. If this woman you know is forgiven, will she then go and sin no more? Will she turn herself in and take the steps necessary to become a legal citizen of the US? Or would you have us continue to forgive her every day she lives here as an illegal alien?

Do you really believe this Coastal? If so, than maybe there is a solution that we both believe is both fair, just and compassionate.

The fact is that the vast majority of undocumented immigrants would jump at the chance to "turn themselves in and become legal". Most undocumented immigrants simply don't have that choice.

Most immigrants are trapped with the stark choice of being deported and "barred" from the country (often breaking up families) or remaining in the "in-between" world that is inhabited by the undocumented immigrant.

The McCain-Kennedy bill in Congress addresses this with a humane and just path toward legalization (involving a fine and rectification of taxes). If you are true to your word, please contact your Senator in support of this bill.

Questioner wrote:

So are many child molestors before they are caught.

I think everyone can see the difference between molesting children and crossing a border. Your post is not worthy of a response.

Momma wrote:

There are many who break the law who do good things for society, but that cannot mean they can break the law. I am more than willing to help anyone get on their feet, start their life over, guide them, etc., but I am willing to do that as long as they are willing to do the things they need to do to help themselves.

I have two responses to this-- One from an American perspective, and the other from a Biblical perspective.

This month we honored Rosa Parks. She was given one of the highest honors -- being laid in State the Capitol building. Why was she honored this way-- because she broke the law. We now honor her because it was a law that was unjust and her act provided for something better.

Immigrants are breaking the a law that most people agree is unjust, unreasonable and in need of reform. They are doing it to provide a future for their families.

If you are honest, I think you would do the same in both cases. Wouldn't you break the law as Rosa Parks did? Wouldn't you cross a border illegally to bring hope to your family?

Jesus himself often broke the law. The religious hypocrites of his day were continually criticizing him for it.

The Gospel of Matthew Chapter 12 wrote:

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, "Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath."

He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they asked him, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"

He said to them, "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."

3Then he said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.

The religious people of today are still focussing on the law over the needs of people.

Christians today are the followers of the biblical Pharisees rather than the biblical Christ.
0 Replies
Arella Mae
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 11:14 pm

I understand your argument. But Jesus was the law. He was the fulfillment of the law. If our laws are unjust, then we must change them.

Some Christians today are followers of the biblical Christ.
0 Replies
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 03:09 am
I don't think Jesus was the law Momma Angel - and I hope I'm not barging in here ebrown - well at least he wasn't the secular law of Judea (I hope that's right).

ebrown - my comments weren't meant to be callous, merely a reflection of reality. Individual cases do make bad policy.

Momma Angel - " If our laws are unjust, then we must change them" - I couldn't agree more.
0 Replies
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 03:15 am
The "Jesus" of the christians obsessed with their Jesus cult and the possibly existent Yeshuah the Rabbi upon whom the putative Jesus is loosely based are not to be historically asserted to have been consonant. MOAN's absurd contention that "Jesus is the law. Jesus is the fulfillment of the law." is based upon a canon of scripture of dubious origin entailing no historically verifiable information, and rife with egregious erros of historical and geographical fact.

These constitute no sound basis for the legal decisions of any polity.
0 Replies
Merry Andrew
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 03:54 am
We gotta understand, folks, that -- contrary to the headline -- this thread has nothing at all to do with "Christians" or with "forgiveness," but, rather, with the pesky problem of how to handle illegal aliens in the USA.
0 Replies
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 08:18 am
ebrown_p wrote:

Questioner wrote:

So are many child molestors before they are caught.

I think everyone can see the difference between molesting children and crossing a border. Your post is not worthy of a response.

On the contrary, they are both criminals. THAT is the thread they have in common. Something you apparently are satisfied to ignore.
0 Replies
Arella Mae
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 12:19 pm
Merry Andrew,

Gotcha. Back on topic for me!
0 Replies

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