14
   

How can dino bones be millions of year old?

 
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 08:47 am
@cameronleon,
why not read back several hundreds of pges. Weve gone over this stuff like an elementary school nture class. If you refuse to undertand science, its no skin off my ass. Ive taught grad students whove become successes in the geosciences. If youre merely combative with a mind that is snapped shut, weve got nothing to talk about so I aint wasting any time on Creation Cretins, Verstehen Sie?
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 08:54 am
@cameronleon,
Quote:
A theory of science is not about what scientists believe, but about the explanation of the mechanism involved for the consequence of the phenomena of certain class from a former phenomena of the same class.
.

Whats funny about this statement is that you Creationists have NO inkling of what you speak, you dont understand the growing masses of evidence, AND then you refuse to understand. YOU just sit on your idiotic myths about a FLOOD , the world being less than 10K yrs old, and that radiochemistry, while it may work for bombs and power plants, the same phenomena of neutron activation nd targeting DOES NOT work for radiometric dating. You are the type section of woo woo science. You and gunga make a pair. In fact you seem to tlk together, uncclimated to ach others wordage, to even sound the same.HMMMMMM
How can someone of reasonable leanings bore through that wall of defiantconcrete ignorance
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 09:01 am
@cameronleon,
Ika stones have been debunked by several techniques including thermoluminescence of the "scratches" THEY ARE NOT centuries old. The masses of these are covered with burnished terra sigilata which has a significant CARBON (hence C14) aging was possible. Its very young .
Its like once when Gunga posted these Petroglyphs that he claimed was a STEGOSAUR made by Ojibwe artisans along one of the Great Lakes. Gunga claims that this scatchmarked petroglyph was probably made in pre contact LAte Woodland Culture. So what happnd to the lst stegosaur?? whered he go in the late 1500's. You guys, at least yer fun
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 09:02 am
@gungasnake,
when you can use your "Creation science" to accomplish anything worthwhile. Why not post it? Ill be happy to debunk it.
0 Replies
 
cameronleon
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 09:32 am
@gungasnake,
What I understand from the bible is that the land emerging from the water was a sole land, the continent known as Pangaea

No rain happened but vapor coming from underground this huge continent. A river which divides itself in different branches was also coming from the underground.

At one point, a crack in land caused the flowing of water from the underground going up. This water should have been hot, as it is understood that caused vapors escaping from small cracks on land.

This water might have also lots of sulfur. The fast coming up of water like a gigantic geyser reached to atmosphere at the point of causing condensation, and by consequence rain.

Earthquakes and tsunami should be present and the whole planet must have been changing its tilt.

The continent before the "mabul" (known as flood or deluge but in Hebrew "mabul" means desolation by cause of water) didn't have the huge mountains of today, it was different. The waters covered the sole continent for months until the water receded and returned back to the underground rivers and lakes.

The bible says that one descendant of the family of Shem was named Peleg (a name meaning "division") because in his days the earth was divided.

This is to say, the crack expanded and caused other ruptures and the whole Pangaea was divided in several parts known today as continents.

The ratio of speed of the division should be fast, causing lots of earthquakes for centuries. The formation of new lands and mountains is what happened with the motion of the parts of the former huge continent.

Humans and species which found areas were to live before the division of land were trapped in the new partitions and acquire their own characteristics in accord to the new environment to which they were exposed.

In certain areas, the exposure to chemicals and gases caused the birth of humans with defects, also caused changes in other species, including plants.

It was a process of extreme changes.

Notice the difference of people's characteristics from the first civilizations. At one point, they grouped themselves according to their own similitude.

The bible shows how careful was Abraham and Issac to choice the woman for their sons, telling them to look for women of the same "family", because two reasons, race and belief.

So, the genetic similitude is obvious when the whole humanity comes from the same family, and the differences are just consequences of living in different environments.

There is no any evolution in this process, but survival in front of the new environment.

The species don't create the changes, it is the environment the one that changes the species appearance, diet, behavior, etc.

On the other hand, it is a fact that any genetic variation in humans, like additional tails in chromosomes or conjunctions cause the ape alike characteristics in the affected humans.

When you find fossils of humans with certain close appearance to apes, such is a birth defect caused by the environment in that area.

There is not a single observation that same chromosome tails and conjunctions in apes will cause them human alike characteristics.

Facts rule, and facts indicate that there is a greater possibility that apes are descendants of humans rather that humans being descendant of apes.

(Note that the theory of evolution was invented in base of ideas from Kant and others, who established that humans are descendants of Chimpanzees and Orangutans before Darwin, and in 1920's the hypothesis of humans as descendants of lemurs became the new approach.

Today, evolutionists try hard to cover up their silly genesis, and claim that their theory is not about being descendants of apes when such is the main purpose of the theory of evolution when was recognized as a theory).








0 Replies
 
cameronleon
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 09:34 am
@farmerman,
You know nothing about science.

Before saying more incongruousness go and verify properly the radiometric method.

Without its verification whatever you say is nothing but crap to the square.
0 Replies
 
cameronleon
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 09:39 am
@farmerman,
Don't make excuses saying that "yes, but creationists this and that".

You have not the explanation of the mechanism for the single cell up to humans, so, your theory is just a joke, because the purpose of the theory is not about predictions but about the explanation of the consequences from one phenomena to another phenomena.

You know nothing about scientific knowledge application.

What you have is a bunch of memorized data from which you attempt to obtain silly conclusions.

Do you want to talk about science?

Then, come back with the requested explanation.

Mick my day.

Lol.
cameronleon
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 09:43 am
@farmerman,
What "techniques" are you talking about when the only source of measure scientists use for age of things (including the universe) is the radiometric method, and this method has never been verified?

If you read your messages, yo are not responding my requirement of evidence.

You are just talking one and more times about your assumptions.

Again, science is not about assumptions, science is about facts and verified methods.

You are not talking science, your messages are full of pseudo science.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 09:43 am
Go ahead, fm. Mick his day.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 09:49 am
@cameronleon,
Our solar system is a mixed bag. Four of the bodies in it (Neptune, Saturn, Mars, and Earth) have the same roughly 26-degree axis tilts; you should assume they were captured by our sun as a group.

The sun, Mercury, and Jupiter have axis tilts less than ten degrees and should be viewed as an original system.

The two other planets, Venus and Uranus, have oddball axis tilts and each has a separate little story of sorts. Venus is a new planet with a surface temperature which would melt lead; it simply has not cooled yet.

The Bible simply has nothing to say about the history of the four captured bodies prior to that capture. Best start point for that sort of thing is this:

www.saturndeathcult.com
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 11:14 am
I read this thread for the comedy and because I love fm's patient responses.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 11:52 am
@cameronleon,
are you familiar with any of the NON radiometric methods like thermoluminescence or quartz stress deformation. Silicate techniques, flourine analyses. etc etc. Besides, there are over 40 different radiometric analyses techniques and scientists choose one or more based on whether its potentially correct from geology mapping etc. We also do several different techniques that use isotopes that have several stable isotopes in the mineral and one radiometric one.(This is to compare what th original concentration SHOULD be in the sample based upon defined fixed ratios of occurrence.) We also look at radioactive elements (like Uranium) that produce stable daughters . We even use isotopes that have half lives of about 3.5 days.

You need to spend more tim with chemitry and physics books (as well as geochem) rather than the bible and its derivative literature thats based upon belief rather than experiments or evidence
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 11:54 am
@cameronleon,
Quote:
science is about facts and verified methods.
Please identify the facts and evidence that you use to produce your Great Flood story? I will answer reasonble questions , youre just blowing smoke and faking an "intellectual irrascibility" as if you were a colleague. Dont flatter yourself.


0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 12:17 pm
@cameronleon,
How many degrees in the subject did you earn and how many years experience do you have under yer belt.
Im guessing 0 and 0. You Creationists act like it doesnt take any rigor to learn to be a geochemist involved with radioisotopic dating.
Weve discussed all this to death in the deep time past with your mentor (gunga) and some other( better) arguers on behalf of Christian Fundamentalists (At least they presented what they thought were real facts). You are just blowin smoke to sound "not obtuse".

That Ika stone crap is like Santa Claus. There may have been one stone with fanciful (non dinosaurian) carvings. Then several people got the idea to fake em.

.
BTW, we do use non radiological dating for old and young samples. One method ESR, is well used to compre C14 data with ESR to see they agree. The Ceratopsian dino tht you nd gung are all orgasmic about, were checked and run by ESR and found to be waaay older than the limit of ESR (about 2 million years).
In other words, the samples submitted by the "Paleo Group" were faked and C14 of recent vintage was actually added somehow. Turns out that shellac (a product of a modern beetle carcass) and phenolic resins (tree sap diluted in Ethanol) were schmeared on the samples.
The ESR technique found out that the C14 was in error because ESR did not agree. "ESR acts like "doping" does NOT exist, it sees through any modern carbon(it ignores all carbon because there IS NO CARBON IN A PETRIFED FOSSIL> You cant be tht dumb to deny that fact can you??

Another method OSL (optic stimulated luminescence) was also used (OSL will read accurcy in samples between 50 and less than 1 million years old.
BOTH methods said that something of a "doping" nature was done to the TRiceratops. So the 20 and 40 K dates were all bogu.
In the letter severeing association of the lab with the "Creationist scientists", the lab stated that in essence "We should hqve recognized something was amiss because we had the same samples from the same specimen and we got dates of 20 to 40 K yers old. "It would appear that the ankle bone was 20000 years old and the vertebra was 40000 years old. "

The internet is loaded with discussion groups whove had fun with these "age forcing" experiments .That is hardly what Id call REAL SCIENCE , Agree?

I assume you will just ignore these points from literature because you are a true Fundamentalist.


roger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 01:25 pm
@farmerman,
I am surprised at how much free time you have to give away on threads like this.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 02:01 pm
@roger,
It kinda distresses me that apparently intelligent people can buy into that Creationist stuff while the greatest number of Christians and Jews have learned that , as science movers forward and evidence becomes clearly understood and available for kids 'Science Fair projects" , all the Biblical stories of Creation are based on tales told around firesides by nomadic peoples in search of ciivilization. The Fundamentalists would have us believe that these same authors were smart enough to envision DNA , and presage everything scientific (with the exception that everything was apparently "Speeded up" for the Bible and Archbishop Ussher.
If everything were developed on the time bases mentioned in the Bible, the 4 major episodes of Continental Drift that we have clear evidence of would mean that the large drifting landmasses would be skidding around the planet at about a mile and a half per day. It so easy to pick off inconsistencies in their BS but I just dont feel its fair that whatever kids peek in here they dont become believers in the "altrnative facts" of the Creationists. The IDers, on the other hand, accept much oof what science speaks (thats why true Creationists and IDers dont get married)
OH WELL.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 03:43 pm
Gunga Dim has gone ape over this Saturn Death Cult BS. It's perfectly tailored for the crowd who are prepared to believe anything.
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2017 05:35 pm
@roger,
That's because the degree in evoloser biology qualified him to be a bum. Bums have lots of free time.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Aug, 2017 05:31 am
@gungasnake,
I voted you back up. Sounds like youre a bit jealous of "Da BUM". My father called me that cause I took after my bachelor Uncle Stosh who taught geology and was a seasonal prospector and was a scientist associated with acquiring Pitchblende "raffinates" for the WWII nuclear program. He died a wealthy man in worldly ways as well as in his chosen field. My father was a military man who came back after WWII to be a big shot for a Railroad and wanted me to follow along. I never wanted to become a big shot of a wagon wheel company ya know?
Im at the tail end of my career, I do mostly pro bono work for institutions now. I maintain a few long term clients that allow me to travel and provide input on resource development in Titanium, gold, Rare earths, and shale gas. I still keep my technical writing and research current, and I teach as an adjunct faculty at a University and a college. I published several papers and edited a text book while Ive been on the A2K , and I do "meet a scientist" days at schools and I judge two science fairs each year.I still have lotsa time to do my plein air painting . Also Ive finished a fairly large installation of abstract works that I based on Quilts.
My best works were two wonderful children, one of whom was killed and the other is doing fantastically with a great career and a young family that he and his lovely partner have produced and are the light of my life.

Im havin fun ,but of course, as I unnerstand, we Bums are a dissolute lot, shiftless and always seeking fun. So Im a cheese eatin bum and proud of my lot in life.

I like to poke around in gung's head and see whats real and whats BS and whats just him having his own kinda fun, not fully believing what he preaches. Im always incredulous that there are people out there who REALLY believe as gunga makes believe.



besides gunga, youre of a perfect example of a "Luddite Lifer". You love anything of science that is at least 60 yyears old
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Aug, 2017 05:33 am
@Setanta,
Im not sure what the Saturn Death Cult even is. Is it some on line gamer thing?? Thats all I got when I googled it.
0 Replies
 
 

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