The beginning of the end? (For Tony Blair)

Did anyone see the excellent TV documentary on Saturday "The Rise and Fall of Tony Blair" presented by Andrew Rawnsley.

It was excellent, balanced. A lot of people spoke rather frankly and revealingly, and Mr B did not come out well.
The concluding part is tonight.

Me, I think the man is a liar and have no time for him. The party should have taken him at his word in 2003, refused to endorse his Iraq invasion plans, and accepted his resignation.
To get that vote, he had to lie. He knew that, and so he lied. He is a war criminal and should face trial.

0 Replies

McTag wrote:

Did anyone see the excellent TV documentary on Saturday "The Rise and Fall of Tony Blair" presented by Andrew Rawnsley.

It was excellent, balanced. A lot of people spoke rather frankly and revealingly, and Mr B did not come out well.
The concluding part is tonight.

Me, I think the man is a liar and have no time for him. The party should have taken him at his word in 2003, refused to endorse his Iraq invasion plans, and accepted his resignation.
To get that vote, he had to lie. He knew that, and so he lied. He is a war criminal and should face trial.

no dammit missed it. (was out getting wet in a thunderstorm...dont ask)

There is inescapable logic in that McT. I think Blair lied over Iraq too. Especially over the threat from wmd. But they had to dream up something to make it legal...launching an illegal war could have unpleasant consequences for a signatory of the ICC. But say what you will about Blair, he's no fool. Why would he risk such a venture? We still havent been told the real reasons for the invasion of Iraq. Perhaps Alastair Campbell told the Intelligence Services to exaggerate the threat of Saddam's wmd, Blair got the report and believed it, without anyone telling him it was a crock of **** only for public consumption...I dunno.

0 Replies

I did watch the Brown acceptance speech. Pretty good I thought. But anyone hoping for a change in policy over Iraq or relationship with USA wont get it from Brown.

0 Replies

Steve 41oo wrote:

McTag wrote:
Did anyone see the excellent TV documentary on Saturday "The Rise and Fall of Tony Blair" presented by Andrew Rawnsley.

It was excellent, balanced. A lot of people spoke rather frankly and revealingly, and Mr B did not come out well.
The concluding part is tonight.

Me, I think the man is a liar and have no time for him. The party should have taken him at his word in 2003, refused to endorse his Iraq invasion plans, and accepted his resignation.
To get that vote, he had to lie. He knew that, and so he lied. He is a war criminal and should face trial.
no dammit missed it. (was out getting wet in a thunderstorm...dont ask)

There is inescapable logic in that McT. I think Blair lied over Iraq too. Especially over the threat from wmd. But they had to dream up something to make it legal...launching an illegal war could have unpleasant consequences for a signatory of the ICC. But say what you will about Blair, he's no fool. Why would he risk such a venture? We still havent been told the real reasons for the invasion of Iraq. Perhaps Alastair Campbell told the Intelligence Services to exaggerate the threat of Saddam's wmd, Blair got the report and believed it, without anyone telling him it was a crock of **** only for public consumption...I dunno.

Whatever the reasons, we now know he agreed in private talks in America to join an American invasion of Iraq long before Parliament, or even his cabinet, was asked. He consistently and regularly said that no agreement had been made, no decision taken on behalf of the British forces.
So the lies started long before the "dodgy dossier" was concocted.

This was clearly brought out (again) in the aforementioned documentary....look for repeats, not-to-be-missed.

0 Replies

any chance that gordon brown will change britain's course of action in iraq and afghanistan ?
both the u.s. and canadian governments are pretty well singing the same tune : "stay the course !" . they are bereft of any ideas of how to deal with a very messy situation and are calling anyone suggesting an evaluation of current strategies - WHICH ARE DEFINETELY NOT WORKING - as non-supportive of the soldiers fighting what is being called a war .
hbg

0 Replies

hamburger wrote:

any chance that gordon brown will change britain's course of action in iraq and afghanistan ?
hbg

I very much doubt it. Brown is just as much an Atlanticist as Blair...if thats possible. The Americans might give us a break an allow us to withdraw some forces from Iraq to redeploy to Afghanistan. (Where we will be for 30 years aparantly). And they might give us a pass for the next big push against Iran if it comes to that. But in general we are in an unbreakable alliance with the US, whereby we do what we are told when it comes to foreign policy. The only exception it seems to me was Vietnam, when Harold Wilson refused to send UK troops.

Mct Yes I remember (dont we all) Tony Blair saying military action is not inevitable and no decisions have been taken. [Of course military action isnt inevitable until it starts, and he might say now he was talking about his holiday plans...] The real reasons WHY this country went to war is driving me nuts. I hope Rawnsley might answer. Seems we are in a quagmire by accident, no one knows how it happened and no one has a clue how to get out.

The best one can do is take the fragments of factual knowledge we have and fill in the gaps to make a picture.

0 Replies

Rawnsley's docu is truly illuminating...see yr Guardian today.

0 Replies

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Guardian, pages 2-3

And it's "New Labour, new era", says the Independent today

"Gordon Brown yesterday told us he wants change. He wants us to meet the challenge of change. He will heed the call to change, and will face the challenge of change everywhere. He is champing at the bit, cheerleading for change, facing the changing challenges yet realising you cannot chop and change these challenges."

Simon Hoggart has been disappointing lately, but this was great.

0 Replies

McTag wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
McTag wrote:
Did anyone see the excellent TV documentary on Saturday "The Rise and Fall of Tony Blair" presented by Andrew Rawnsley.

It was excellent, balanced. A lot of people spoke rather frankly and revealingly, and Mr B did not come out well.
The concluding part is tonight.

Me, I think the man is a liar and have no time for him. The party should have taken him at his word in 2003, refused to endorse his Iraq invasion plans, and accepted his resignation.
To get that vote, he had to lie. He knew that, and so he lied. He is a war criminal and should face trial.
no dammit missed it. (was out getting wet in a thunderstorm...dont ask)

There is inescapable logic in that McT. I think Blair lied over Iraq too. Especially over the threat from wmd. But they had to dream up something to make it legal...launching an illegal war could have unpleasant consequences for a signatory of the ICC. But say what you will about Blair, he's no fool. Why would he risk such a venture? We still havent been told the real reasons for the invasion of Iraq. Perhaps Alastair Campbell told the Intelligence Services to exaggerate the threat of Saddam's wmd, Blair got the report and believed it, without anyone telling him it was a crock of **** only for public consumption...I dunno.

Whatever the reasons, we now know he agreed in private talks in America to join an American invasion of Iraq long before Parliament, or even his cabinet, was asked. He consistently and regularly said that no agreement had been made, no decision taken on behalf of the British forces.
So the lies started long before the "dodgy dossier" was concocted.

This was clearly brought out (again) in the aforementioned documentary....look for repeats, not-to-be-missed.

Hey Steve, that documentary will be repeated late tomorrow night.

Check it out. (Test on Thursday.) :wink:

0 Replies

this thread has just over 2 hours to run.

Then Blair is driven to the Palace, explains to the Queen that he is resigning as Prime Minister, and that Mr Brown will soon present himself to be appointed her new Prime Minister.

Then within minutes (a few minutes when technically Britain is without a Prime Minister...) Gordon Brown arrives at the front door of Buckingham Palace to kiss hands with Her Majesty. Tony Blair is led out via the back door into the rear court yard of the Palace and shot.

There is a certain protocol to be observed in these matters, and the British are past masters at it.

0 Replies

Steve 41oo wrote:

Then within minutes (a few minutes when technically Britain is without a Prime Minister...) Gordon Brown arrives at the front door of Buckingham Palace to kiss hands with Her Majesty. Tony Blair is led out via the back door into the rear court yard of the Palace and shot.

Oh, good.

When's tea?

0 Replies

I'm a lover of tradition and protocol, especially the bit where a prime minister who has contrived at an illegal invasion and has brought about the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents, a British Labour prime minister who has colluded with a very right-wing American administration in some of its worst crimes, is taken out of the back door of the palace into the yard and shot.

0 Replies

Besides his poodlish behaviour towards King George - he wasn't that bad at all, for the UK as well as for Europe, I think.

Back watching ...

0 Replies

Some remarkable scenes. Blair brilliant in the commons. (Unprecedented standing ovation at the end, Cameron told his lot to stand up and clap!)

Then the car chase down the mall. The car was swapped from a treasury robin reliant to a 2 ton armour plated Jaguar, which whisked off Prime Minister Brown to Downing Street.

Meanwhile Cherie and Tony are dumped round the back of Kings Cross station by their diplomatic protection squad motorcyclists. Somebody rustles up a phone to take a picture. A few building workers come over to see whats going on. Then straight onto platform 7, Tony carrying his bag walking past a few startled passengers, and onto the train for Darlington. (He'll have to get the bus from there, the train doesnt go through Sedgefield...hope he's got enough change for the bus fare)...pomp and ceremony.

Now for tomorrows newspapers headlines will all scream Goodbye, I dont think we'll miss you! Thats what Cherie said to the assembled photographers and journalists as she got into the car at Downing Street.

Back at number 10, Gordon and Sarah looking extremely uncomfortable seem to be shut out. The door didnt open. Who's got the key? Has Tony taken it?

0 Replies

Leaving aside the fact that blair took us into an illegal war (we could all read the placards at the end of Downing street...YOU LIED 1000s DIED...) let me explain why I thought Blair was brilliant in the House of Commons today.

A question from a northern MP about ex miners finding work gave Blair the opportunity to deliver his gag. He had (genuinely) received his official tax summary on termination of employment which is called a P45. So he was able to express sympathy with anyone else in that position. ...Blair sits down

then a Lib Dem mp asked him a convoluted question about his successors position re the relationship between the Church and State in Britain.

Blair stands up says "I'm not bothered" and sits down. Which is doubly funny first because for the first time he could give such a flippant answer to a serious question. Second, for comic relief children's charity recently he did a real comedy sketch with actress Cathrine Tate in which he delivered her punch line "Am I bovvered?"

He also said goodbye to an arch eurosceptic conservative MP Nicholas Winterton (who I've known for 30 years) in 4 or 5 european languages.

0 Replies

The Daily Mail (it showed up in Google News, ok?) digs up an old quote about the new Chancellor, Alistair Darling:

Quote:

Labour leader Neil Kinnock, on a visit to Edinburgh to calm the council Left-wingers, remarked: "I never want to see that bearded Trot to become an MP."

0 Replies

Alastair Darling, Peter Hain, John Reid, Jack Straw...Tony Blair...plenty of them would not care to be reminded too forcefully of their younger days.

0 Replies

McTag wrote:

Alastair Darling, Peter Hain, John Reid, Jack Straw...Tony Blair...plenty of them would not care to be reminded too forcefully of their younger days.

I'm not going to let you hijack this thread.

this is the END.

i started it so i will finish it. NOW

The beginning of the end? (For Tony Blair)

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know