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Big Fat lying hypocrites!

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 08:04 pm
yes dear.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 08:07 pm
Denying it doesn't change what happened.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 08:16 pm
MA I was one of them, I know of what I speak. I don't believe you do.
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 08:26 pm
If these allegations are true, if there is evidence amounting to proof, then whoever ordered/approved the action should be charged as a war criminal. That might go to the White House as well. If Bush and Cheney approved of this then they are as guilty as the commanding officer who gave the final orders. If this is true then I seriously wonder what else these wicked people are capable of.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 10:00 pm
dys,

I won't argue with you about this. You were there. I wasn't. This is true. I just know what I was told by many, many of our soldiers. I also saw how they were treated when they came home. I was so close to one that when he was spit on, some of it got on me.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 06:12 am
stevewonder wrote:
I best take your advice amnd stick to Fox News and ........er CNN.......


That certainly isn't my advice.

I recommend PBS's Newshour and NPR's Morning Edition and All Things Considered, with a sprinkling of BBC for greater international coverage.




Quote:
Rai says this amounts to the illegal use of chemical arms, though the bombs are considered incendiary devices.


Rai certainly has an honesty deficit as well.




Quote:
Washington is not a signatory of an international treaty restricting the use of white phosphorus devices.


Since white phosphorus is considered primarily a smoke weapon, and the incendiary effects are considered secondary, I don't see how WP use falls under that protocol, even if we were a party to it.



Quote:
US forces have used them very sparingly in Falluja, for illumination purposes. They were fired into the air to illuminate enemy positions at night, not at enemy fighters," the US statement said.


I doubt the truthfulness of that statement from the US government as well. Anti-American reporters aren't the only ones who lie.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 06:34 am
Quote:
Napalm, Chemical Weapons Used at Fallujah - Iraqi Official

By Joel Wendland


Two days after the US State Department released its annual Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, Dr. Khalid ash-Shaykhli, an official at Iraq's health ministry, told a Baghdad press conference that the U.S. military used internationally banned weapons during its deadly November 2004 offensive in the city of Fallujah.
During the attack on the city, eyewitnesses described horrific scenes that analysts have attributed to attacks with napalm, a poisonous cocktail of polystyrene and jet fuel that has the capacity of melting human flesh and bones.

Dr. ash-Shaykhli stated that his medical teams, assigned the responsibility of investigating the health situation in Fallujah by Iraq's health ministry, had done research that proved U.S. occupation forces used substances, including mustard gas, nerve gas, and other burning chemicals there.

In factone news source quoted Dr. ash-Shaykhli as stating, "I absolutely do not exclude their use of nuclear and chemical substances, since all forms of nature were wiped out in that city. I can even say that we found dozens, if not hundreds, of stray dogs, cats, and birds that had perished as a result of those gasses."


It should be noted that there is no such doctor, that no such research done by anyone at the Iraqi Health Ministry, and that no such news conference was ever made.



Quote:
Depleted uranium is a substance commonly found in all types of U.S.-made munitions including machine gun bullets, tank rounds, and cluster bombs


It is certainly found in some tank shells and in some armor-piercing bullets.

Other than that, it isn't all that common.




stevewonder wrote:
During the attack on the city, eyewitnesses described horrific scenes that analysts have attributed to attacks with napalm, a poisonous cocktail of polystyrene and jet fuel that has the capacity of melting human flesh and bones.

Inter Press Service reported eyewitness accounts describing bombs that created mushroom clouds and explosions that caused skin to burn even when water was thrown on it.


They were witnessing the white phosphorus. It makes a big mushroom cloud of very unpleasant smoke, and sprays out burning chunks of phosphorus that lodge in people and keep burning. It is most notable because if the fire doused, the phosphorus will reignite in the wound as soon as it dries out.

Here is a picture of a WP hit on an old battleship:

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h57000/h57483.jpg




Quote:
Weapons such as mustard gas, nerve gas, and napalm have been banned by international convention since the 1980s.

Ironically, it was the claim, later proven false, that Saddam Hussein possessed and sought to build stockpiles of these banned weapons that led to the US invasion of Iraq in March of 2003.

The US remains the lone hold out on the napalm ban agreement and the only country that continues to use the substance.


It should be noted that there has never been a "napalm ban agreement".

There is a protocol on incendiary weapons that sets some rules on how napalm is to be used. And it is true that the US isn't a party to it. But I don't think we are the lone holdout.

And we seem to voluntarily abide by the protocol even though we aren't a party to it.


I could be wrong, but I think the use of chemical weapons (mustard and nerve gas) has been banned for much longer than the 1980s.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 06:38 am
goodfielder wrote:
If these allegations are true, if there is evidence amounting to proof, then whoever ordered/approved the action should be charged as a war criminal. That might go to the White House as well. If Bush and Cheney approved of this then they are as guilty as the commanding officer who gave the final orders. If this is true then I seriously wonder what else these wicked people are capable of.


The allegations that white phosphorus is a chemical weapon, a WMD, or is an any way illegal, are false.

Proof can be had by consulting the definition of chemical weapon.
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 04:00 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
I am going to pray for you Stevewonder. What about our troops? What about our soldiers that have died? War is not fair. War is not good.

But what about those in Iraq that strap bombs to their children? What about the child that was burned so horribly she has to have countless surgeries just so her head can grow because her skinned was burned so badly? This CHILD WAS HURT BY HER OWN PEOPLE.



there are none so blind as those who refuse to see!

Why is it that whenever I post anything about War crimes commited against Iraqis people .some peeps start the same mantra!! "What about our troops" and "War is bad"

whats wrong with you people??!!!

Are you some how suggesting that i sent our kids there to be killed and maimed? no sir i didnt!!

and infact i tried my darnst to stop the war because I knew this would happen.

So why dont you people start praying for the dead and maimed women children and soliders that were led to war on a pack of lies instead of wasting your pray times on me!!!


in case you didnt notice it they kinda need it more than i do right now!!

Wanna blame someone how about Bush, Dick, Colon and Cheney and those folks in happy trigger go lucky Israel!!!


and as for those self delusional peeps who think the Wizard of Oz is going to save them from the truth hes not!!! We have commited war crimes in Nam and we continue to commit them in Iraq so get with it.

we invaded yes that right I. N . V. A. D. E. D. Iraq.........there are no links to Al qaeda, or 9/`11 or bin Laden or Terrorism or WMD's

Juts Israeli and Oil Folks!!! that why our kids are dying over 2054 and thousands maimed for life not to mention the 10's of thousands of dead iraqis!!!

for the Israel and Oil!!!

Our kids dead for israel and oil!!! thats the plain truth so dont be going round blame me!!! I am just the messenger.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 04:07 pm
stevewonder,

I wasn't blaming anyone. Blame does nothing but fuel a fire.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 04:27 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Whatever dys. The point is war is hell. But all I seem to hear about these days is what the US is doing to them. What about what they have done to this country? What about what Saddam did to 3M of his people?



Errrrrr... what do you believe the Iraqis have done to this country?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 04:31 pm
Piffka,

I really don't want to get into an argument or a tit for tat with anyone. I support our troops 100%. The only point I was trying to make was blaming is a two-sided street and does nothing but fuel a fire.
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 05:47 pm
The iraqis have not done a darn thing to the american people, and people should not try to defend the undefensible because you end up sounding silly.

Yes we should talk about blame!
Yes we should ask whose mess this is!
the Iraqi people have a right to ask, the american people have a right to ask, and hell the whole world has a right to ask.........whose mess is this anyway??

And the answer is simple the Bush administration spear headed by those two faced pro-Israeli lobbiest have dragged us to getting our kids killed for Oil and country.....but that country is not our country but the state of israel.

lets stop the denial people we been taken ona merry go round, we been duped, conned, tricked and suckered and who pays the price for this mess everyman and his kids, the true blood patriots, but we got stop lettin these buzzards take us for a ride people.

enough is enough!

bring our troops home now!!
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:20 am
It appears that the derranged bastion of fascism, aka the 'state' of Israel not wanting to be left behind in using banned WMDs demonstrated its own prowess...............


_________________________________________


IDF using phosphorus shells to train, against international law
By Gideon Levy, Haaretz Correspondent

The Israel Defense Forces has been using phosphorus shells in training exercises, a practice forbidden in inhabited areas under international law.

Several weeks ago, four Bedouin goatherders were badly hurt by the detonation of an unexploded phosphorus shell they found near their home in the South Hebron Hills. Fadal Abu Aram, 17, died of his injuries several weeks later; Hani, 12, is still in serious condition at his family's shack in the village of Carmel; Mahmoud, 14, and Yusef, 24, were also injured by the explosion.

The blast occurred on August 17 in an area where Bedouin families have been living in caves, in an IDF fire zone. Civilians who had been evicted from the area were permitted to return following an interim order from the High Court of Justice, but the IDF never cleared the unexploded ordinance.

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The brothers said they found the shell about 100 meters from their home. One of the children spotted the large metal object and called his brothers over, and then the shell exploded.

The brothers were rushed in serious condition to the Soroka Medical Center in Be'er Sheva. Hospital records state specifically that they were suffering from phosphorus injuries.

The IDF Spokesman's Office said at the time, "This was an unfortunate incident." Regarding the use of phosphorus shells, the spokesman told Haaretz last night: "Phosphorus shells are used solely in training, in order to mark targets and sector boundaries." (yeah whateve dude!! and them apaches and F 16s we sent your are to help sick animals and not to pulverize women and kids)


____________________________________

But let me guess someones gonna come on here an question its 'authenticity' and 'reliability' and ask us to stick to Fox news and CNN and the future..........
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:54 am
Oo heres another liar this time an american.....will these people never learn that only Fox News and CNN know whats ging on in the world ?!

___________________________________


Violence subsides for Marines in Fallujah

Bogert is a mortar team leader who directed his men to fire round after round of high explosives and white phosphorus charges into the city Friday and Saturday, never knowing what the targets were or what damage the resulting explosions caused.

By DARRIN MORTENSON
Staff Writer

04/11/04 "North County Times" -- -- FALLUJAH, Iraq ---- The siege is still on but the violence subsided some in Fallujah on Saturday as American military and political leaders gave members of the new Iraqi government a day to persuade insurgents to stop resisting U.S. troops in the city.

Wire services reported U.S. forces and Iraqi insurgents had agreed to begin a cease-fire at 10 this morning, but U.S. military authorities did not confirm the agreement. One condition of the cease-fire reportedly was that U.S. forces begin a withdrawal from the city within 12 hours. A member of the American-appointed Iraqi Governing Council, Mahmoud Othman, told Associated Press, "I don't know how likely that is."

Insurgents and Marines occasionally skirmished along the city's fringes, but for the most part, each still hunted the other from afar.

For the third straight day, American jets hurled 500-pound bombs at buildings. Insurgents fired rockets and lobbed mortars at the Marine positions, which are no secret now, six days after troops first encircled this embattled city northwest of Baghdad.

What appears to be a standoff, however, is just the calm before the storm, Marines said.

"I don't want to have to level the city," said Maj. Brandon McGowan, as some of his men set up in an emptied apartment building to watch activity in the city beyond.

McGowan is the executive officer of the Camp Pendleton-based 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment ---- the battalion that has lost two Marines since Monday while fighting for a foothold in Fallujah's tough northwest corner.

"I don't think the Marines really want to level the city, but," McGowan shrugged and trailed off, like many Marines have in the last two days as a full-scale assault on the city becomes the obvious next step.

More Marines arrive

About 1,000 infantrymen from a third Southern California Marine battalion arrived Saturday to reinforce the cordon established by two other battalions, and to join in whatever offensive operation follows this bloody and costly Holy Week.

According to The Associated Press, the U.S. military's death toll from the week of fighting across the country stood at 47. The fighting has killed more than 500 Iraqis ---- including more than 280 in Fallujah, a hospital official said. At least 648 U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq since the war began in March 2003.

Officials said about 60,000 residents fled the city Friday in vehicles and on foot from checkpoints in the south.

In the north, however, no men are allowed to leave the part of town where insurgents concentrated last week and have led coordinated attacks in neighborhoods they fortified with bunkers, barricades and weapons caches.

Military officials no longer speak of winning hearts and minds in Fallujah.

"At this point, this is conventional war," said McGowan, who added that what could go down in Fallujah is really the kind of head-on operation the Marines are trained for. "At the small unit level, the squad level, it may already seem like it has started. But really, at the battalion level and higher, this thing has not even really begun."

Marines wait for offensive

The street fighting that characterized the week since Tuesday hushed some in the north Saturday as troops held the first few blocks, awaiting orders to advance.

Other Marines who were dug in along the cordon dug deeper to survive increasingly accurate mortar and rocket attacks.

Rockets exploded about 9 p.m. Friday, kicking up rocks and dirt and knocking out power to a neighborhood Marines had taken over as a defensive base.

"I was walking right over where the second or third one hit when I just yelled 'Hey! Hit the deck!' Lance Cpl. Adam Scott, 24, of Mustang, Okla., said Saturday morning, recounting the attack the night before. "We got lucky that time."

After that attack, like the countless other attacks, Marines counted heads, checked for damage to vehicles and weapons, and got on with nightly watch shifts.

Others tried to snatch a few hours of sleep between the outbursts of wild dogs and before the AC-130 Specter gunship started its nightly thundering, enforcing the nightly curfew from the sky.

Day six dawns

The sun up and the Specter gone, Marines awoke Saturday to faint sirens from ambulances collecting the night's casualties from a sector of the city that has been reduced to a smoldering ghost town.

The calm on Saturday gave troops only enough time to come to grips with their environment and start thinking about the toll the fighting has taken.

At the city's littered and dusty northern edge, stinking swamps have formed where tanks and tracked vehicles have broken farmers' water lines and carved out farmland to the water table, which is shallow from the Euphrates River some half-mile away.

Soggy trash and human waste from makeshift latrines stew under the unforgiving sun, attracting hordes of fat black flies.

The tenacious flies ---- that troops liken to the insurgents because "they just keep on coming" ---- land on food and cover hands and faces that never really get clean in the dust and sweat of the Marines' wartime workday.

Fighting from a distance

After pounding parts of the city for days, many Marines say the recent combat escalated into more than they had planned for, but not more than they could handle.

"It's a war," said Cpl. Nicholas Bogert, 22, of Morris, N.Y.

Bogert is a mortar team leader who directed his men to fire round after round of high explosives and white phosphorus charges into the city Friday and Saturday, never knowing what the targets were or what damage the resulting explosions caused.

"We had all this SASO (security and stabilization operations) training back home," he said. "And then this turns into a real goddamned war."

Just as his team started to eat a breakfast of packaged rations Saturday, Bogert got a fire mission over the radio.

"Stand by!" he yelled, sending Lance Cpls. Jonathan Alexander and Jonathan Millikin scrambling to their feet.

Shake 'n' bake

Joking and rousting each other like boys just seconds before, the men were instantly all business. With fellow Marines between them and their targets, a lot was at stake.

Bogert received coordinates of the target, plotted them on a map and called out the settings for the gun they call "Sarah Lee."

Millikin, 21, from Reno, Nev., and Alexander, 23, from Wetumpka, Ala., quickly made the adjustments. They are good at what they do.

"Gun up!" Millikin yelled when they finished a few seconds later, grabbing a white phosphorus round from a nearby ammo can and holding it over the tube.

"Fire!" Bogert yelled, as Millikin dropped it.

The boom kicked dust around the pit as they ran through the drill again and again, sending a mixture of burning white phosphorus and high explosives they call "shake 'n' bake" into a cluster of buildings where insurgents have been spotted all week.

They say they have never seen what they've hit, nor did they talk about it as they dusted off their breakfast and continued their hilarious routine of personal insults and name-calling.

Say 'cheese'

Every day since they started firing rounds into the city, other Marines have stopped by the mortar pit to take a turn dropping mortars into the tube and firing at some unseen target.

Like tourists at some macabre carnival, some bring cameras and have other troops snap photos of their combat shot. Even the battalion surgeon fired a few Saturday, just for sport.

Everyone wants to "get some," the troops explain, some joking that Fallujah is like a live-fire range.

Some have started to think of what happens after all the guns go silent.

"I just don't want to come home and have someone calling me a baby killer," Alexander said after firing dozens of high explosive mortar rounds into the city. "That would piss me off."

Alexander said no one has told him what the charges have hit.

Anxious to move again

While they've hunkered down in their sandbagged positions, some of the Marines have come out of their shell.

As the sun set Saturday, Lance Cpl. Jose Robles, 20, of Tustin and Cpl. Juan Perez, 24, of the Bronx, N.Y., took a moment to feed their neighbors: four wild fuzzy puppies that live in holes and tunnels they've burrowed in the huge berm along Fallujah's train tracks.

The puppies wagged filthy tails and let out little squeals as the Marines fed them from the packaged rations. The puppies didn't care for the food any more than the Marines, but lapped up copious amounts of water before the two troops went back to work.

Earlier Saturday, Lance Cpl. Joseph McCarthy ate a big black dung beetle to win a $40 bet, and to kill the time.

"That one tasted kinda funky," he said, washing it down with a swallow of water. "The big long one I ate last year tasted better."

Just killing time

Sitting atop a train trestle watching bombs drop on the city beyond, Lance Cpl. Scott said such antics didn't shock him. The Marines were just trying to deal with time and discomfort while they wait for the battle for Fallujah to really kick off.

"I'm glad to see we're not going to be (messing) around anymore," Scott said. "We're going to finally go in and get it done. I just don't want to have to come back here a year from now to have to finish something."

What the "it" is that needs to get done is something most Marines don't explain, but they say "it" is what they do best.

"They were never really that comfortable with the 'no better friend part,' " said Navy chaplain Lt. Scott Redatski, referring to "No better friend ---- No worse enemy" ---- the motto the Marines used when there was still talk of trying to win hearts and minds in Fallujah.

"But they seem pretty ready to be 'no worse enemy,' " Redatski said. "This is what they're trained for. This is what they do."

Staff writer Darrin Mortenson and staff photographer Hayne Palmour are reporting from Iraq, where they are with Camp Pendleton Marines. Their coverage is collected at www.nctimes.com/military/iraq.

© 1997-2005 North County Times
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:59 am
more lies from the liberal.......er........military?!
heres more lies this time its from the military admiting guilt.........i think we can safely conclude they are not to be trusted and they too are liars like the British Journalists, and the Italian jorunalists etc...........all lies I tell ya!!



http://sill-www.army.mil/FAMAG/Previous_Editions/05/mar-apr05/PAGE24-30.pdf
0 Replies
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 09:49 am
It's funny how conservatives support the war even when given evidence that it all was a sham. Then, they have the gall to blame those who don't support the war for not supporting the troops.

So why is it that Democrats and Progressives are the ones insisting on better protection for our troops? Why does this administration give tax breaks to the rich while cutting back on services?

This war is an unspeakable travesty.

Anthem for Doomed Youth


What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?
Only the monstrous anger of the guns.
Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle
Can patter out their hasty orisons.
No mockeries for them; no prayers nor bells,
Nor any voice of mourning save the choirs, -- -
The shrill, demented choirs of wailing shells;
And bugles calling for them from sad shires.
What candles may be held to speed them all?
Not in the hands of boys, but in their eyes
Shall shine the holy glimmers of goodbyes.
The pallor of girls' brows shall be their pall;
Their flowers the tenderness of patient minds,
And each slow dusk a drawing-down of blinds.


Wilfred Owen
1893-1918
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 12:34 pm
Diane,

With all due respect, I believe one can support the troops without supporting the war.

The troops are there. They need our support. I can support them by writing, emailing, and sending them care packages with the things they need. It doesn't have to mean that I agree with the war or disagree with the war.

Frankly, I am more concerned with just supporting the troops and staying out of the reasons for it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 01:31 pm
stevewonder wrote:
It appears that the derranged bastion of fascism, aka the 'state' of Israel not wanting to be left behind in using banned WMDs demonstrated its own prowess...............


Israel does have some banned WMDs, as they maintain enough nukes to eradicate the Arabs. But as before, white phosphorus is neither banned nor WMD.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 01:32 pm
stevewonder wrote:
Oo heres another liar this time an american.....will these people never learn that only Fox News and CNN know whats ging on in the world ?!


I saw no lie in the article.
0 Replies
 
 

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