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17 alleged would be Islamic terrorists arrested in Australia

 
 
dlowan
 
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 07:09 am
In night raids in Sydney and melbourne this morning, police arrested 16 alleged terror conspirators...followed by a seventeenth today. One alleged conspirator shot in the throat after firing at police.

This follows the dramatic early pushing through Parliament of much debated anti terror laws, (which have sparked much concern that they were taking away important civil rights) after the Australian Prime Minister claimed that there was an "imminent threat" to Australia.


There was concern in many quarters that the drama was being used to divert attention from the conservative Government's attempts to enact new industrial relations laws, which have sparked strong opposition, and have led to falling polls for the government.


Prime Minister Howard claims that the arrests have vindicated his denials that the drama about the imminent threat was designed to get the terror laws enacted with minimal opposition, and to smokecreen the IR laws, and regain governmental popularity...



The police today thanked moderate Muslims for information and assistance in their year long surveillance of ther alleged conspirators.


There were nasty scenes outside a Melbourne court when supporters of the accused attacked media.


One Muslim view:

http://www.islamonline.org/English/News/2005-11/08/article02.shtml


Aussie Muslims Shaken by "Terror Swoops"


"This is not going to end speculation about the Muslims and the religious and racial profiling of people which we fear from the new terrorism laws," Mehboob said.


SYDNEY, November 8, 2005 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) – Australian Muslims warned Tuesday, November 8, a pre-dawn "terror arrests" within the Muslim minority will spark renewed anti-Muslim hatred as analysts said home-grown "militants" in Australia and other countries are driven by the Iraq occupation.

"It's two-fold, they (Muslims) are frightened about the events that are taking place around them, like everybody else," Amjad Mehboob, chief executive of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, told the Australian Associated Press news agency, according to Agence France Presse (AFP).

"But they are doubly concerned about the fallout. This is not going to end speculation about the Muslims and the religious and racial profiling of people which we fear from the new terrorism laws," Mehboob added.

The response came after Australian police said Tuesday they arrested 16 people, including an a Muslim imam, in pre-dawn raids in Sydney and Melbourne, alleging that the pre-emptive strikes were to foil a "large-scale terrorist attack".

Police said seven people were arrested in Sydney and nine in Melbourne in swoops on more than 20 homes in the country's largest "counter-terrorist" action after a 16-month investigation.

One of the Sydney suspects was shot in the neck and critically injured after he fired at police who ordered him to stop as he walked along a suburban street, police added.

The operation came nearly a week after Australia's anti-terror laws were changed to give police greater powers.

Anti-Muslim Hatred


Video grab shows man being led into a cell after being arrested in Sydney (Reuters)


Australian Muslims, on their part, fear that the Tuesday's arrests would fuel hate crimes against the Muslim minority, AFP said.

Waleed Aly, a spokesman of the Islamic Council of Victoria, said there had recently been an increase in the anti-Muslim hate crimes.

"Crimes range from people being spat on, to assaults, headscarves being ripped off. It's pretty horrible stuff," he said.

Keysar Trade of the Islamic Friendship Association echoed a similar concern, saying that talk-back radio had been "full of vitriolic comments about Muslims" after the Tuesday's arrests.

"This is what we're facing, it's certainly not an enviable position to be in," he told AFP.

Australian Muslim leaders, however, expressed hope that the arrests would ease suspicion of Muslims and give those charged a chance to defend themselves..........
(story continues)


Interview with Victorian Premier, Steve Bracks:


Bracks says law amendment helped today's terror arrests
PRINT FRIENDLY EMAIL STORY
The World Today - Tuesday, 8 November , 2005 12:14:00
Reporter: Lynn Bell
ELEANOR HALL: To Melbourne, where a joint press conference was held this morning by the Premier Steve Bracks, the Police Commissioner Christine Nixon and the Victorian head of the Australian Federal Police, Frank Prendergast.

Lynn Bell was there for The World Today.

LYNN BELL: Victoria's Police Chief Commissioner, Christine Nixon, says this morning's arrests are by far the biggest counter-terrorism operation ever undertaken in Australia.

She says police had real concerns that attacks at an unspecified location were imminent, but at this stage she's not prepared to say why anyone would want to carry out an attack in Australia.

CHRISTINE NIXON: I think that will become more obvious as the court matter comes into place and we'll reveal that as the information is given to the courts.

LYNN BELL: All of the 17 people who were arrested in Melbourne and Sydney are Australian citizens, and police say they don't believe any held dual citizenship with any other country. Some have travelled overseas recently but police will not reveal any more information about the trips.

Those arrested in Sydney and Melbourne have been charged with being a member of a terrorist group and one man has been charged with directing a terrorist organisation. Other state charges may also be laid.

Victoria's Police Chief Commissioner, Christine Nixon.

CHRISTINE NIXON: The penalty regarding being a member of a terrorist organisation is a maximum of 10 years and for directing a terrorist organisation and being a member is in fact a maximum 25 years. These are serious charges and serious offences.

LYNN BELL: The Manager of the Australian Federal Police's Melbourne Office, Frank Prendergast says police have spoken to everyone they had immediate concerns about, but at this stage he won't say if there are others police are interested in.

FRANK PRENDERGAST: We're starting to touch on detail round an ongoing investigation and I think everyone will understand that we need to keep some activities covert. So I just can't really comment on that at this stage, suffice to say that it is ongoing.

LYNN BELL: The Victorian Premier, Steve Bracks, says he's confident there is no threat to the Commonwealth Games, which is to be held in Melbourne in just four months.

He says the laws are now in place to ensure the games are one of the safest ever.

STEVE BRACKS: Well there is a small number of people who are obviously intent on causing a terrorism incident in Australia. We know that, of course, that these people were Australian citizens, they are Australian citizens. That obviously some of them have connections overseas but they're matters which will be determined before the courts.

We have said all along, and I think I've said all along as a premier that we are not immune from a terrorism incident occurring on our shores, but we need to ensure that we have the best possible laws to protect our citizens with the right checks and balances. I think we've got that.

LYNN BELL: Steve Bracks believes last week's amendment to the anti-terror legislation was vital, and he says it allowed the raids to take place early this morning.

STEVE BRACKS: Whilst it might seem a small change to move from "the" to "a", in the legislation – federal legislation – it does have a significant impact in that the preparation for a terrorism attack, the wherewithal for something to occur, can be undertaken without a particular target and I think it's important to protect the safety of Australians that we're able to disrupt that, to prevent that happening and prevent those acts of terrorism occurring even if there is not an identified target.

ELEANOR HALL: And that's the Victorian Premier Steve Bracks ending that report from Lynn Bell in Melbourne.


http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2005/s1500255.htm




Australia terror arrests 'avert catastrophic attack'
AP
Published: 08 November 2005

Police arrested 17 terror suspects in Australia's two biggest cities today in raids that they said foiled a plot to carry out a catastrophic terror attack.

A radical Muslim cleric known for praising Osama bin Laden was charged with masterminding the plot.

One suspect was in critical condition after being shot in the neck during a gunfight with police, said police Commissioner Graeme Morgan. An officer was hit, receiving a minor graze to the hand.

A bomb squad robot examined a backpack the suspect was wearing when he was shot and found a hand gun, Morgan said.

"I'm satisfied that we have disrupted what I would regard as the final stages of a large-scale terrorist attack ... here in Australia," New South Wales Police Commissioner Ken Moroney said on Australian Broadcasting Corporation radio.

Prime Minister John Howard, who last week warned of a possible imminent terror attack in Australia, thanked security forces in a nationally televised news conference.

"This country has never been immune from a possible terrorist attack," he said. "That remains the situation today and it will be the situation tomorrow."

Abu Bakr, a leading Algerian-Australian cleric who has said that while the killing of innocents is wrong, he would be violating his faith if he warned his students against joining the jihad, or holy war, in Iraq, was among nine men who appeared this morning in Melbourne Magistrates Court charged with being members of a terror group.

Prosecutor Richard Maidment told the court the nine planned to kill "innocent men and women in Australia."

"The members of the Sydney group have been gathering chemicals of a kind that were used in the London Underground bombings," Maidment said, adding that Abu Bakr was the group's ringleader.

"Each of the members of the group are committed to the cause of violent jihad," he added, saying they underwent military-style training at a rural camp northeast of Melbourne.

Seven of the suspects, including Abu Bakr, were ordered detained until a court appearance on January 31. Two others are to hear tomorrow whether their application to be released on bail will be granted.

Seven men arrested in Sydney were held in cells at a tightly guarded downtown court during a five-minute hearing this afternoon at which they were ordered held until another hearing on Friday on charges of preparing a terror act by manufacturing explosives.

The eighth suspect, the man shot by police, was under guard in hospital and was not immediately charged.

Defence lawyer Adam Houda, who was representing at least one suspect, told reporters outside the court that the charges were a "scandalous political prosecution."

"There's no evidence that terrorism was contemplated or being planned by any particular person at any particular time or at any particular place," he said.

Federal Police Commissioner Mick Keelty said the fact that a suspect fired at police "serves to show that we are dealing with very serious issues here."

Angry supporters of the suspects clashed violently with news cameramen in Melbourne and Sydney.

More than 500 police backed up by helicopters hovering overhead were involved in raids across Sydney and Melbourne, arresting eight men in Sydney and nine in Melbourne and seizing chemicals, weapons, computers and backpacks.

Moroney said possible bomb-making materials were found, including chemicals which, "when combined in combinations of one or more, certainly could be highly volatile."

Police declined to give details of the likely target of the attack, but New South Wales Police Minister Carl Scully said: "I was satisfied that this state was under an imminent threat of potentially a catastrophic terrorist act ... involving the attempted stockpiling of chemicals and related materials that could be used in a major explosion."

Melbourne lawyer Rob Stary said he represented eight of the Melbourne suspects including Abu Bakr, who in the past has called al-Qa'ida mastermind Osama bin Laden a "great man." Abu Bakr leads a fundamentalist Islamic group in the southern city of Melbourne where he has lived since 1989.

Australia has never been hit by a major terror attack, but its citizens have repeatedly been targeted overseas, particularly in neighbouring Indonesia, where dozens of Australians have been killed in bomb blasts since 2002.

Last week, Howard rushed through Parliament an amendment to terror laws he said would beef up police powers to arrest suspects plotting attacks. Melbourne police said the new powers helped them carry out their raids.

Opponents say Howard's strong support for the US-led strikes on Iraq and decision to send troops there and to Afghanistan have made it inevitable Australia will be attacked.


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/australasia/article325572.ece



17 Held in Australia Terror Swoop


SYDNEY, Australia (CNN) -- Australian prosecutors began outlining what they say were planned attacks against citizens after police arrested 17 people on terrorism charges in the nation's two largest cities.

Police made the arrests in Sydney and Melbourne on Tuesday. Those arrested include a Muslim cleric accused of masterminding a cell dedicated to "violent jihad."

Australian authorities credited their 18-month investigation with averting terrorist bombings.

"We believe that we've been able to significantly disrupt a proposed terrorist attack here in Australia," New South Wales Police Commissioner Ken Moroney told Australia's Channel 7 Television.

Police have confirmed one man who had been under surveillance was shot and wounded by police Tuesday morning in an outer Sydney suburb.

The man allegedly fired shots at the police and a second gun was found in a backpack he was carrying, Australia's Sky News reported. He is under police guard in hospital.

A prominent Islamic cleric, Abu Bakr, was among nine men who appeared Tuesday morning in the Melbourne Magistrates Court charged with being members of a terror group.

Prosecutor Richard Maidment told the court the nine formed a terrorist group to kill "innocent men and women in Australia," The Associated Press reported.

"The members of the Sydney group have been gathering chemicals of a kind that were used in the London Underground bombings," Maidment said.

He said Bakr was the leader of the group.

"Each of the members of the group are committed to the cause of violent jihad," AP reported Maidment as saying.

Victorian state police had more than 240 hours of phone intercepts in which the group discussed plans to kill Australian civilians, the court was told.

Some of the group had attended military training, and they had a pooled fund of money to finance alleged plots, the court heard.

Bakr has previously stated support for al Qaeda mastermind Osama Bin Laden and for terrorist causes around the world. (Bakr profile)

There were wild scenes outside the Melbourne court, as young men scuffled and traded punches with media crews covering the suspects' appearances.

Bakr followers are known to have traveled to Central Asia for terror training, Channel Nine reporter Sarah Ferguson told CNN.

Australian Federal Police Commissioner Mick Keelty told CNN that about 600 police across the nation had been involved in the crackdown.

He described the operation as a "complex matter that would take some months to work through."

The arrests followed the execution of 22 search warrants across Sydney and Melbourne Tuesday morning during which a range of material "including unidentified substances, firearms, travel documents, computers and backpacks" was seized, a statement released by the Australian Federal Police said.

"By working collaboratively, Australia's law enforcement and intelligence agencies have managed to disrupt the alleged activities of this group and therefore protect the Australian community from a potential terrorist threat," Australian Federal Police Deputy Commissioner John Lawler said.

Prime Minister's terror warning
The warrants are part of a joint counterterrorism operation by the Australian Federal Police, New South Wales Police, Victoria Police, the New South Wales Crime Commission and Australian Security Intelligence Organization.

In a news conference Tuesday, Australian Prime Minister John Howard said new anti-terror laws that were passed last week by parliament played a role in the arrests.

"We were advised that the change would strengthen the capacity of the authorities to respond to the situation that had been identified, and it is the view of the two police commissioners and the Victorian premier that that is precisely what happened," Howard said.

The arrests come less than a week after Howard held a nationally televised news conference in which he said Australia had received intelligence about a "terrorist threat."

Howard recalled Australia's upper house of parliament so it could pass urgent amendments to controversial anti-terror laws on Thursday which now allow police to charge people in the early stages of planning an attack.

Australia, a steadfast ally of the Bush administration, has not suffered a major terror attack on home soil but its embassy and citizens have been targeted in neighboring Indonesia.

Eighty-eight Australians were among the 202 people killed in the October 2002 Bali nightclub bombings.

The country has been on medium security alert since shortly after the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.


http://www.ksbitv.com/home/1957522.html



Man shot in Australia terror raids
08 November 2005


SYDNEY: Australian authorities foiled what they believed to be a large-scale terrorist attack, arresting 15 people, including a controversial Muslim cleric, during raids in Sydney and Melbourne, it was reported today.


Sky News reported that one suspect who had been under surveillance was shot and wounded by police involved in the raids after he had allegedly fired at officers.

It was understood the shooting happened near the Green Valley Mosque on Wilson Rd in Sydney.

One of the men arrested in the Melbourne raids is the Muslim cleric Abu Bakr, his lawyer Rob Stary told ABC.

Abu Bakr publicly stated earlier this year his support for al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden.

The Australian Federal Police said in a statement that today's arrests followed a 16-month investigation by federal and state police and intelligence agents.

"I am satisfied that we have disrupted what I would regard as the final stages of a large-scale terrorist attack, or the launch of a large-scale terrorist attack here in Australia," New South Wales Police Commissioner Ken Moroney said.

Australia, a staunch US ally with troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, has never suffered a major peacetime attack on home soil. The country has been on medium security alert since shortly after the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.

Moroney said more than 400 officers were involved in the overnight raids of 15 homes in Sydney's southwest, resulting in the arrest of six males.

"They are currently being interviewed by police and my expectation is that those persons variously will appear in Sydney courts this morning." Nine arrests were made in Melbourne, the ABC reported.

Australia's parliament rushed through urgent amendments to anti-terror laws on Thursday to allow police to charge people in the early stages of planning an attack.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3471928a10,00.html
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 03:37 am
bm
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 04:32 am
In keeping with occupational stereotypes I'm "swooping" in to bookmark this.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 05:36 am
Lol! Only Australians give a damn!


Hey, anyone else concerned re the nature of the media coverage and polly comments re fair trial issues later on?
0 Replies
 
yankeecat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 05:40 am
And the dumbass muslims react by attacking reporters... they really are neanderthals and should have the same destiny.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 06:10 am
Ok, GF, I am wrong to be paranoid about a government snow job on this, eh?



The police would never cooperate.......
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 06:33 am
dlowan wrote:
Ok, GF, I am wrong to be paranoid about a government snow job on this, eh?



The police would never cooperate.......



Hmmm

Wrong about snow job? No. Be critical.

The police would never cooperate? No. Of course they would. But bear in mind that there are the Feds and the rest. I really hope that the AFP under Keelty haven't been politicised, but I'm not happy about it. I see Keelty doing a press conference and I think "OWNED". I could be very wrong and I really, really hope I am. As for the state/territory Commissioners. I think you need to look at the State/Territory governments before you look at the Commissioners. Some are owned, some aren't. Most are owned.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 06:41 am
That is what was worrying me as I looked at the premiers preening in front of the cameras, as though they had done it themselves, genitalia visibly longer than the day before. "I'm playing on the world stage!!! I look SOOOOOOO good!" Especially given how they rolled over on rational criticism of the legislation.


And this is the government that brought us the Tampa, there is nowhere they would not go, as far as I can see.


But...these cases have to be prosecuted in open court, and hey, I figured ages ago we would have bombings etc here from domestic terrorists.


man, I hope I am wrong.



The press stuff is gonna make a field day for the defence when it comes to fair trial, though?????????
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 02:48 am
Yes I think the courts will be less than impressed.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 05:30 am
Question

I have 20 50 kg bags of ammonium nitrate in my shed.

i have a 44 of diesel in my shed (different shed)

i have friends/co-workers who are muslims

am i terrorist?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 06:01 am
Sure.


Here's a thing, I am watching the episode of "30 Days" where this sheltered, fairly ignorant young christian fella from West Virginia goes to live with a muslim family for 30 days, and bloody good on him.


Anyhoo, this fella is a devout christian, and he DOESN'T KNOW that he and muslims and jews share the same god! That they are branches of the same tree.



He is scared to pray to his god in their prayers....feels it would be immoral and such (but i really like him, he is sooooooooo prejudiced, but there he is!)




Anyhoo, do people think that level of ignorance, among christians, is the same in Oz?




I do not really expect non religious folk, or non jesw/muslims/christians to know about the kinship of the three religions, but religious folk in one of the faiths? At least ones with a basic education???



Like, I have known that for so long I cannot remember not knowing it. Is that weird? Am I unusual for knowing it, or would most christians here know it?


Any comments?



And, the Americans interviewed, when asked to associate Muslim with the first thing that came into their head all said "terrorist". Is that the same here?

I fear so.


Makes the weird level of hatred expressed by some here a little more understandable, I guess.... I guess.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 06:03 am
Sure.


Here's a thing, I am watching the episode of "30 Days" where this sheltered, fairly ignorant young christian fella from West Virginia goes to live with a muslim family for 30 days, and bloody good on him.


Anyhoo, this fella is a devout christian, and he DOESN'T KNOW that he and muslims and jews share the same god! That they are branches of the same tree.



He is scared to pray to his god in their prayers....feels it would be immoral and such (but i really like him, he is sooooooooo prejudiced, but there he is!)




Anyhoo, do people think that level of ignorance, among christians, is the same in Oz?




I do not really expect non religious folk, or non jesw/muslims/christians to know about the kinship of the three religions, but religious folk in one of the faiths? At least ones with a basic education???



Like, I have known that for so long I cannot remember not knowing it. Is that weird? Am I unusual for knowing it, or would most christians here know it?


Any comments?



And, the Americans interviewed, when asked to associate Muslim with the first thing that came into their head all said "terrorist". Is that the same here?

I fear so.


Makes the weird level of hatred expressed by some here a little more understandable, I guess.... I guess.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 05:39 pm
Hmmmm...the headline is hyperbole, but the death is likely significant:

Azahari killing blow to terrorists



Azahari bin Husin, who was killed during a police raid on a terrorist hide-out in the East Java town of Batu, topped wanted lists across Southeast Asia for his bomb-making expertise and his determination to carry out attacks on Western interests in the region.

Known as the "Demolition Man," the bespectacled Malaysian is believed to have been one of five key members of the al-Qaida linked terror group Jemaah Islamiyah, blamed for a series of deadly terror strikes in Indonesia.

Arrested members of the network have said they were motivated in part by anger at US foreign policy in the Muslim world, and that their ultimate goal was to establish an Islamic state across parts of Southeast Asia.

"The group's operation capability will be reduced significantly as of today," said Major General Ansyaad Mbai, a top Indonesian anti-terror official. "But it is still dangerous because this movement is based on ideological and political motives. It cannot be stopped by the arrest and killing of one leader."

Azahari is accused of playing a key planning and operational role in the 2002 Bali nightclub bombings, two attacks in Jakarta in 2003 and 2004, as well as last month's restaurant blasts, also on Bali. More than 240 people many of them foreign tourists were killed in all four attacks.

Azahari, along with fellow Malaysian militant Noordin Top, eluded capture for years by renting cheap houses in densely populated areas. Noordin's whereabouts remain unknown, but police say they normally travelled apart.

Azahari, in his 40s, is a native of the southern Malaysian state of Johor. He studied mechanical engineering at Adelaide University in Australia before getting a doctorate in property valuation from Reading University in England in 1990.

He was a university professor before reportedly joining Jemaah Islamiyah. Azahari is known to have received bomb-making training in Mindanao in the southern Philippines in 1999, and advanced training in Afghanistan in 2000.

An elite US-trained police unit raided Azahari's hide out in Batu in east Java Province on Thursday. Officers shot him just seconds before he was able to detonate a suicide belt around his waist. Another militant holed up with managed to blow himself up to avoid capture.

Indonesia authorities have long suspected that he would rather die than be arrested.

Ken Conboy, an Indonesia-based terror expert, said police were hoping to catch him alive.

"This has deprived the authorities from gaining exploitable information with regard to future plans, financing, stockpiled explosives, and new suicide recruits," he said.

Australian Federal Police Commissioner Mick Keelty said he thought Azahari would have not been much help to investigators anyway.

"I think someone like Azahari ... was unlikely to ever co-operate," he said in Thailand. He said the Indonesian police "were fortunate that no one lost their lives Thursday in that very critical operation."

Australian Prime Minister John Howard said Azahari's death was "good news."

Indonesian police had been after the Adelaide-educated former university lecturer and fellow Malaysian Noordin Top since the first Bali bombings in 2002, in which 88 Australians were among the 202 people slain.

"It doesn't mean that JI (Jemaah Islamiyah) is crippled but it does mean that somebody that is believed to have been behind the two Bali attacks, the Marriott attack and the attack on the Australian Embassy in Jakarta may well have been taken out of the equation. If that is confirmed, then that is a huge advance, but we're going to embroiled in this struggle for years into the future." ........


http://english.people.com.cn/200511/11/eng20051111_220583.html




As the apparent bomb maker for both Bali bombings, as well as the Jakarta Oz Embassy bombing, this is a significant event for Australians.





What is also, I think, interesting, is to not the apparent quite extensive (and fairly quiet) co operation between Oz and Indonesia re terrorism.

After we went into East Timor, it felt as though it would take forever for Indosnesian/Oz relations to settle down (and I, personally, believed we were a strong terror target for Indonesian Islamic extremists from at least that moment on), however, there was actually a contingent of Australian Federal (I think, or Special Branch???) police very near to where this shooting began, and they moved to the scene quickly.





Meanwhile, more arrests, and the release of the alleged target for the terror attack:

18th Terror Suspect Arrested in Australia

Friday November 11, 2005 1:31 AM


By MERAIAH FOLEY

Associated Press Writer

SYDNEY, Australia (AP) - Australian police arrested an 18th suspect Thursday in an alleged terror plot that a lawmaker said involved a large quantity of explosives.

A lawyer for eight of the suspects - Muslims from Sydney - accused authorities of holding them in ``shameful'' conditions and said prosecutors have produced no evidence of an imminent terror attack in the country.

Police threw a security cordon around the Sydney courtroom where the men's cases were being heard. The eight were expected to appear in court via video links.

The latest suspect to be arrested was a 25-year-old man who was seized Thursday by counterterrorism officers in Sydney and charged with being a member of an unspecified terrorist organization, New South Wales state police said in a statement. The other 17 were arrested in coordinated pre-dawn raids on Tuesday in Sydney and the southern city of Melbourne.

Ten of the suspects have been charged with being members of a terrorist organization and eight with conspiracy to plan a terrorist act. The charges all carry a maximum penalty of life imprisonment.

The Sydney Morning Herald newspaper reported that the Sydney arm of the alleged Islamic terror network had stockpiled enough chemicals to make at least 15 large bombs.

Also Thursday, lawmakers began debating Prime Minister John Howard's proposed raft of tough new anti-terrorism laws and Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said the government would consider introducing laws to strip convicted terrorists of their Australian citizenship.

The anti-terror legislation, which has met with opposition from legal and civil rights groups, would enable authorities to hold terror suspects without charge for two weeks and monitor them with electronic tracking devices for up to a year.

The proposed laws also toughen jail terms for inciting race hatred or violence against the community, and have been criticized as an attack on free speech.

Adam Houda, a lawyer for eight of the Sydney suspects, slammed the case against the men as weak and criticized an expected delay in prosecutors giving him more details about evidence.

``These people are being treated differently, the conditions they are being held under are, I believe, shameful,'' Houda said.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5407450,00.html





OFFICE TOWER TERROR TARGET
By ELISSA HUNT, MARK DUNN, PAUL ANDERSON and ELLEN WHINNETT
10nov05
A MELBOURNE office tower housing many hundreds of public servants was among possible targets of an alleged terror plot foiled by raids this week.

Police found a map of the Casselden Place building - the Commonwealth Government's main offices in Melbourne - during searches linked to nine Victorians now in custody charged with terrorism offences.

Senior Detective Jennifer Bannan-Moss, from the joint counter-terrorism team, yesterday told Melbourne Magistrates Court of the map during a bail hearing for Abdullah Merhi, 20, who police allege had volunteered to become a suicide bomber, and Hany Taha, 21.

Magistrate Reg Marron referred to the map when he refused bail.

"A search of a property found a map of Casselden Place, a Commonwealth facility in Melbourne. It is not known the significance of this," Mr Marron said. He described the allegations as "extremely alarming".


The 43-storey Casselden tower, at the corner of Lonsdale and Spring streets, houses federal agencies including the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Immigration, and the Australian Taxation Office.

Bureaucrats leaving the tower yesterday said they had received emails from managers advising a threat to the building had been identified, but there was no cause for alarm.

Solicitor Rob Stary, acting for eight of the accused terrorists, said outside court there was no evidence of an imminent attack and no specific allegations had been made in relation to the Casselden map.

"It's just been raised . . . without reference to it being some area that is prospectively at risk," he said.

The map revelation came as Australian Federal Police revealed a 10th Victorian suspect was also being sought by authorities and more Victorian raids were likely.

In other developments:

A PRISON boss told the court the accused will be held in solitary confinement in Barwon Prison until their case is heard in January.

FORMER Home and Away actor Omar Baladjam, wounded in an shootout with Sydney police, became the 17th person to be charged during a hospital bedside court sitting.

ALLEGED Melbourne mastermind Abdul Benbrika has been living off taxpayer-funded welfare payments for a decade, documents show.

Police allege they have 240 hours of secretly recorded conversations - most from Mr Benbrika's home.

They say the recordings show each member of the group was committed to violent jihad, had contributed to a fighting fund and spoke of martyrdom for the cause.

The group had allegedly ordered a "massive quantity" of chemistry items from a Melbourne supplier including beakers, burners and thermometers.

Police also claim they were recorded discussing sourcing chemicals which had been difficult to access since the September 11 attacks, and their Sydney counterparts had been trying to buy the sort of chemicals used in the London bombings.

Mr Benbrika, 45, is also charged with directing the organisation, which carries a maximum 25-year term.

It is believed the seven Sydney men charged on Tuesday were last night being moved by police convoy. Authorities refused to confirm the transfer, but television footage showed convoys heading out of Sydney under heavy security.

It is believed the men will be taken to Goulburn's Supermax facility, on the NSW southern tablelands......



http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,17196500%255E910,00.html

So, more Oklahoma City than Bali, perhaps...

The Australian Newspaper's editorial (conservative press)


Editorial: Truth about terror
Terrorists are always the enemies of all good Muslims
November 12, 2005
THERE was a great deal of sense spoken this week by Australian Muslim leaders, horrified by the possibility that members of their community could turn to terror. Such as Waleed Aly, from the Islamic Council of Victoria, who says Australian Muslims will welcome fair trials for the men charged with terror offences during the week. And also Nabil Ibrahim, from Australian Muslim Doctors, who says Muslims quietly support the arrests. These are commonsense comments that demonstrate the core issue of the terror threat - that all over the world, people who believe their religion calls them to kill are murdering Muslims. And, right round the world, adherents of Islam when given half a chance turn their back on the tyranny of terrorists. The reason al-Qa'ida tried to block elections and the constitutional referendum in Iraq is because they know they will never win power if ordinary people can elect their rulers. And they are right. As last year's elections in Indonesia and Malaysia demonstrated, Muslims look to politicians to provide the same things everybody else does: stability, prosperity and freedom under the rule of law. And the vast majority of Muslims are not interested in imposing their beliefs on anybody else.

But people whose politics encourage them to assume the colonialist crimes of the US and its allies created Islamic terrorism, and are even responsible for the alienation of young Muslims in Western countries, are claiming confirmation for their opinions from a week of news that went from bad to worse. In France, mainly Muslim mobs raged against the state in riots beyond the power of the police to stop. At home we saw 18 men charged with terror offences. In Iraq, there were assassinations and a lawyer representing one of Saddam Hussein's co-accused was killed. On Thursday, more than 40 people were killed by suicide bombers and 56 innocents were similarly slaughtered in Jordan. Certainly, there was good news - of a sort. Azahari bin Husin, Jemaah Islamiah's bombing mastermind, killed himself to avoid capture. But his death does not end the terror threat in our region. For those whose response to terror is to say we have brought it on ourselves, the ways to end terrorism are obvious. Only addressing the grievances of Muslims against Israel can reduce the risk of terror attack. Only by abandoning Iraq can the allies atone for turning out the tyrant Saddam. This is all nonsense. The al-Qa'ida organisation was committing terrorist acts for almost a decade before Osama bin Laden started making pronouncements about Israel. And September 11, in 2001, and the first Bali bombing, in 2002, occurred before the invasion of Iraq.

The appeasers completely miss the point. People killed in Jordan and Iraq this week by suicide bombers were Muslims. Aspiring terrorists are generally young men with few skills who turn to extremism to give their lives a purpose, however twisted. Nor is there any reasoning with their leaders. And none of them much mind who they kill, because everybody who is not with them is against them. The tactical solution to contain terror is to use the full force of the law to stop terrorists before they strike. The strategic answer is to ensure their causes falter for want of recruits. And it is here that Australia, unlike France, is on the right course. In France, Muslim immigrants and their children feel they are second-class citizens. And in the way the failed French welfare state ensures official unemployment is 10 per cent, around twice the Australian level, it consigns a disproportionate number of young Muslim men to idleness and alienation. In contrast, Australia requires all migrants to respect our laws and embrace our values, but respects the rights of all to live and worship as they wish. And the best defences against isolation and anger are the opportunity to work hard and buy a home. The events of the last week make it quite clear: there is no negotiating with terror. But they also show this is a struggle between people of all, and no, religions and tiny numbers of men who are as ignorant as they are evil.......






Oz gripped in debate about the threat to fee speech in new anti terror laws.....specifically re "sedition"



PM refuses to budge on sedition
Lachlan Heywood
12nov05
PRIME Minister John Howard has defiantly ruled out watering down the terror package to accommodate the Opposition or disgruntled members of his own party.




Mr Howard yesterday said the sedition provisions of the anti-terrorism Bill would be kept, despite growing criticism they have nothing to do with terror.

Victorian Liberal MP Petro Georgiou told Parliament on Thursday that the provisions were problematic and required "serious review".

One of the concerns is that journalists or their editors could run foul of the sedition laws if they reported events such as raids by security organisation ASIO.

But Mr Howard said media organisations had nothing to fear.

"There is nothing in these laws that is going to prevent legitimate, full reporting, consistent always with the power of courts to say that certain things for national security reasons can't be revealed and that's been the case for a long time," he said.

Debate on the Bill, which give authorities greater power to stop, question, search and detain terror suspects, has been adjourned until Parliament resumes at the end of the month. In the meantime, the controversial legislation will be examined by a Senate inquiry.

A review will also be held into the contentious sedition provisions, but only after they are passed.

Mr Howard said the package had already been properly debated in the party room and would not be watered down.

"One of the strengths of this Government has been the willingness of the leadership of the Government to use the party room process to bring about change and improvement," he said.

"There is nothing that we have agreed to that alters the substance of or weakens the substance of what we are trying to achieve."

Opposition Leader Kim Beazley said Labor would continue to fight for amendments to ensure Australia's counter-terrorism laws had the right balance.

"We stand united with the Government and the premiers on the need to struggle with international terrorism," he said.

"But we also want common sense, and to include within this framework the sedition laws, which the premiers had no discussions with the Prime Minister about, is foolish and we say excise that."

Mr Beazley said Mr Howard's pledge to retain the sedition laws would be a test for Liberal backbenchers who had raised concerns.

"Sedition is about protecting governments from satirists. We are about protecting the Australian people from terrorists," he said.

Australian Federation of Islamic Councils Dr Ameer Ali said the events of the past week showed the Government already had sufficient powers to deal effectively with preventing terrorism.

"Muslims are not alone in expressing this concern," he said.

"Legal and constitutional experts as well as the media have expressed serious concerns in relation to issues of sedition, reporting of incidents and possible unlawful association."


http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,17213059%255E953,00.html
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 07:18 pm
Sorry dlowan, but the Jews, the Muslims, and Christians do not all share the same God. Each have their own concept of God.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:27 pm
Yes dear, and all disagree, as do christians with christians, muslim with muslim and jew with jew, with varying degrees of animosity.

Nonetheless, you all share the same god as described in the shared books of the bible.


ALL of you see it differently, but thus it is with humans.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 10:40 pm
I will go only so far as to say the Jews know the God of the Bible, but Allah is not God.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Nov, 2005 01:36 am
http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5073719,00.jpg
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Nov, 2005 01:40 am
Islam says that the Archangel Gabriel revealed the Qu'ran to Muhammad.
There are very many similarities between Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
I think that adherents of each religion worship the same God, how ever they choose to name their God. It just seems to make sense to me.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Nov, 2005 02:00 am
Momma Angel wrote:
Sorry dlowan, but the Jews, the Muslims, and Christians do not all share the same God. Each have their own concept of God.


No. What goodfielder said. And what is generally not disputed at all.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Nov, 2005 02:11 am
Momma Angel wrote:
I will go only so far as to say the Jews know the God of the Bible, but Allah is not God.


Ach, the narrowness of those who think they know god.
0 Replies
 
 

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