A religious revolution in America

Right now, we are in greater danger of losing our way of governing, our way of life, than any time in the last few centuries at least. When people have said we would fall from within, I always expected us to come through in the end. Now, increasingly, I am not so sure.

I wish I would have seen this show. It's hard to comment on only the article itself.

I did look up the New Life Church. The one in Colorado Springs did not list it's statement of faith, core values, etc., but the church in this link did.

http://www.newlifechurcha2.org/aboutNLC/

I found nothing in their statement of faith, core values, etc., that said a single thing about trying to gain political power.

I am curious, Mesquite. Just what did you consider to be "whitewashed"? I can't comment on the show itself. I am hoping it will air again on satellite.

I haven't seen the show. By the looks of the article, it's not really worth it. It would probably just make me barf. What passes for journalism sometimes is a bloody shame.

The show was pretty much centered around the new phenomenon of mega churches, those with upwards of ten thousand members. Lots of music and theatrics similar to a rock concert, big screen TV etc. coupled with a very charismatic minister that gets the audience involved. Jim bakker came to mind.

Brokaw attempted to bring up the subject of political power, but that was quickly poo pooed by stating that these evangelical churches are independent, "they have no pope" the man said. Still the hot button issues of activist judges, abortion and gay rights were in the forefront.

Seeing the flagrant proselytizing going on at the Air Force Academy really got to me. To NBC's credit they did interview the Jewish man that brought out the complaints against the Academy for religious pressures brought to bear on his sons who were cadets. This is a three generation Air Force Academy family.

Who was doing the proselytizing?

From senior officers down to cadets. Here is a link to a thread on the issue.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1617945#1617945

I have no problem with them sharing their beliefs. However, if they are met with resistance from the person they are sharing with, they should stop.

Of course the chaplain is going to encourage others to witness to others. That's part of sharing our faith. But, like I said, if they are asked by the individual they are sharing with to stop, they should.

I gotta put my two cents in here. I feel Christian moral values are slowly disappearing, not only in individuals, but in our government as well.

It is my understanding that many Christians feel like the lion in a cage. That can only lead to trouble. Our country began as a place where people from around the world could come and worship God freely. The Statue of Liberty was created by an artist in France who believed this was that kind of place.
Our U.S. currency declares, "In God we trust." Currently, those values we used to hold so dear are being taken away because of the actual depletion of our moral values that are based on God, or in other words "the 10 commandment law".
Any one who dosen't like the thought of freedom of religion, should move to another country. Try Bagdad!

non-denom christian,

I agree with you. Christian values are disappearing. That's why it is so important for Christians to keep to the task. I fear that most want freedom FROM religion and not freedom of religion.

I believe it is just far too easy to not go against the grain. It's easier to just accept what is going on than it is to fight it. But, I for one, will never give up the fight. Moral standards are well-worth fighting for!

You know Momma.

Oh yes. I know very well.

I don't live in the US, but I do live in a secular society which supports freedom of religion. I reckon that works. You can practise your religion without being disturbed. But I also appreciate freedom "from" religion. I wouldn't want to live in a theocracy. So, allowing people to practise their religion and allowing people like me to live a secular life free from the effect of religion works for me.

Perhaps I should start doing my article on Fundamentalism, which is a response to a belief that the dominant culture (a secular, scientific culture) is slowly eroding away the religious culture.

In a world where Freedom of Religion is going to happen, then there is obviously going to be people abandoning some religions in favour of others or no religion at all.

There is no erosion of Christian morales, not even here in the UK, which some of the more zealous of you American Fundamentalists call "A Godless Country". Just because we don't wear our religion on our sleeves and keep our religion to ourselves doesn't mean we're less Christian.

Why, just a year or two ago, in some poll (If you were to make a New Eleventh Commandment, what would it be?) to make Jesus' "Do unto others as you wish them to do unto you," the new Eleventh Commandment.

There is no erosion of Christian morales.

It's just more and more people are trying to keep their religion out of people's lives by keeping it to themselves.

No erosion in Christian morals? (You typed morales but I believe you meant morals). You have got ot be kidding, right?

Let's just go over a few things that it didn't used to be okay to do but now is:

1. Homosexuality has been a sin in God's eyes from the beginning and now because more and more people want (? may not be the right word) to either do this or let someone else have "their" choice, it is now becoming acceptable in our society. No erosion in values here?

2. How often did children take guns to school and shoot their classmates/teachers? No erosion in values here?

3. The crime rate has gone through the roof! So much so that even during natural disasters women are being raped and beaten, items that couldn't possibly even be used are stolen, people trying to rescue others are shot at. No erosion in values here?

4. Our country was founded on the morals of our founding fathers. Now, there are those that want God taken out of everything because they do not believe in God and feel they are being forced to if His Holy Name remains within the public sector. No erosion of values here?

5. Abortion used to be illegal. Now, abortions are being done more for convenience (statistically proven) than for any other reason. No erosion of values here?

6. Children in today's society are lacking even the most common sense of courtesy. I realize not all children, but around here where I live, it's the majority. They are rude, obnoxious, and flat out do not care about anyone or anything but themselves. No erosion of values here?

I could go on and on because there are plenty more examples. Like I said, the problem is it is just far too easy to go along with the flow instead of standing up for what is right.

I have asked some posters on these threads to not call me names because I am a Christian. That, to me, is just common courtesy. What do I get? "Well, that's going to happen. The best thing to do is ignore them or get a thicker skin." Why do I have to lower my standards to meet others?

The majority of people in the U.S. are Christians. There are a few who put up a fight because they aren't and do not like the fact that their children say "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance etc. Because of the "political correctness" of our current government, and the passiveness of Christian's, laws have been put into effect like removing the 10 commandments form public buildings and soon will remove the words "under God" from the pledge. These recent laws are a clear warning to most of the people in the U.S. that the entire basis for this country is deteriorating. My oldest son is in the National Guard, sometimes he wonders what exactly is he fighting for. If it was up to me, he'd be fighting for a land that puts God above everything. No, I am not a Republican and I did not vote for G.B. I vote Dem. or Rep. or for whomever I feel will do right. G.B. worried me from the beginning and still does.
Christians are beginning to wake up to the demoralization of our government and are making their voices heard. Money has become top priority in the U.S. and not the fundamentals of the past.
If we don't fight for what we believe in now, then the future looks pretty grim for the next generation. That's why abortion is at the forefront of every political debate. If Christain's let one slip by, then all will go with it.
Yes, there are bound to be radicals making the rest of us look like bad people, but the majority of us are passive which is why we got ourselves into this mess in the first place.
It's better to put the fire out with a fire extinguisher than to wait 'till you need a fire truck. Guess what? We need a fire truck.
That's my opinion.

MA,

The last time you went on a rant about the erosion of Christian morality, I had to remind you of a few things. I think it is worth repeating.

"Well, when I was stationed in your state of Louisiana nearly 50 years ago, Black people could not eat in the same places as white people. Drinking fountains and restrooms were labled white only. Keep in mind that this was right in the heart of the Bible belt and thought fit and proper by the Christian majority.

If you want to go back in time a few more decades women were thought too stupid to vote: This concept is well supported by the Bible as in 1 Corinthians 15

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Go back a few more decades and the same good people condoned slavery and quoted scripture to back them up. Please do do try to impress me with the contribution of the Bible or Christian values upon morality."

Fortunately those examples of Christian morality have not only eroded, but hopefully vanished forever from our society.

Yes, Mesquite. I know. You and others think that because some things have changed for the better that the others are (what?) not important?

You seemed to have totally ignored the things I felt are an erosion of Christian morals. Any reason for that?

You seem to have a rather weak understanding of the meaning of freedom of religion as it applies to the laws of the USA, and its relationship to the Ten Commandments.

"1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

Ignoring this, our government has not outlawed Hinduism. That's understandable, since the First Amendment directly contradicts the First Commandment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


"2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them..."

The first amendment does not allow us to create laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

"
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain."

We have repealed our blasphemy laws, which discriminated against non-Christian religions. Our free-speech laws directly contradict this Commandment. See first amendment.


"4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:"

Same as above, would be a violation of the first amendment.

And you seem to have a really hard time comprehending that there are two testaments in the Holy Bible, Mesquite.

Try reading the Beatitudes. I know I have said this to you before.

Oh, and do me a favor, check out this link:

http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html

Perhaps yours' and others' definition of separation of church and state might not be quite what you think. It's a possibility.