Does Philosophy Lead to Nihilism???

The first going up or the first going down or the first to get itself in the middle?

But thanks fresco-I'll study it tomorrow.

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fresco-

Is Wittgenstein trying to show that "we are indeed all alone" as Proust phrased it?

That seems a reasonable conclusion from your post to me.

Would you class him as a scientist?

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Spendius,

W. certainly had an interest in solipsism particularly in the Tractatus, and later in his discussions of "private language" but I would refer you to Google for further comment.

As for whether he was "a scientist" ...he was certainly a trained engineer and practical polymath...yet philosophically he had a famous clash with Popper one of the major proponents of stringent criteria for "science" epitomized for example by Wittgensteins acceptance and Poppers rejection of "grey areas" such as Freudian psychoanalysis.

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whoo

what ya gonna say to that spendy?

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Piece of cake Steve.But it's late and I have some beasts to muck and fodder.

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No. Not all philosophers are relativists, and not all philosophers are nihilist. Why not define philosophy first?

Of course a nihilist would say that philosophy is nihilism, and hey that's because they are nihilist. Even they however, cannot possibly reject that it is possible and even probable that they may be wrong.

Here, there are those who firmly said no. These are the non-nihilist, and they are philosophers if they choose to be.

A nihilist believed that there is no meaning in this world. I believe that they are kidding themselves, that they are seeing the world through the eyes of an unconscious being, and they are contradicting themselves in this respect. I believe that the only things capable of meaning are people, and that it requires both faculties of reason and experience to find meaning. I am not talking of meaning as purpose, I am talking of meaning as a valid reason to appreciate something.

So does philosophy equal to nihilism? No. To say it is, is a nihilist's view of what they consider to be true.

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I think nihilists are suffering from clinical depression. Seriously. I have absolutely no qualifications which allow me to say that but..........I have been treated for it and nihilism at times seems a perfectly reasonable view of the world when you're down there with the black dog.

Just another, un-scientific and un-philosophical view.

btw anyone got a reference for "Wittgenstein for Dummies" ? All I know about him is that "Wittgenstein was a beery swine who was just as schloshed as Schlegel"

Thank you.

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Yeah, you could be right.

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fresco wrote-

Quote:

Spendius,

W. certainly had an interest in solipsism particularly in the Tractatus, and later in his discussions of "private language" but I would refer you to Google for further comment.

As for whether he was "a scientist" ...he was certainly a trained engineer and practical polymath...yet philosophically he had a famous clash with Popper one of the major proponents of stringent criteria for "science" epitomized for example by Wittgensteins acceptance and Poppers rejection of "grey areas" such as Freudian psychoanalysis.

and Steve wrote-
whoo

Quote:

whoo

what ya gonna say to that spendy?

Well-I got the beasts done and I've checked out Wittie on Google as fresco advised and I've read a bit in a couple of books I have.

Off the top of my conk I would say Witty was a one man good job creation scheme.It seems he changed his mind mid career,possibly because they were catching up with him,and finally he decided that it was all nonsense anyway.His aerodynamic science is seemingly associated with kite flying,which figures,and they suspect him of being a bit fruity but don't say which way round.A bit of a loner so I would guess girls didn't rate him.
Filthy rich and hence exposed to severe ennui.

My broad brush thinks he was taking the piss and like Dylan said,if you pile up shite you might as well pile it high.Maybe he was a secret agent sent here to render us daft as I suspect Ms Greer is.
He does seem to have sold a lot of wood pulp with ink inserts so that's admirable from a dynamic New Labour perspective I should have thought.
I daresay there are thousand who are currently resting at home tending their large gardens and keeping the garden centres busy on inflation proof pensions who owe him a large vote of thanks and who never feel the need to think of conditions on the ground in Iraq which our brave lads have to put up with.

As for Freud-I think he was working in a similar seam but getting all those wealthy neurotic women across his couch must have amply justified it.

OK Steve.What's going to happen if Chelsea finish on 114 points?I'll bet the philosophers in the FA are debating that possibility already.

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Spendius,

Did you read that W. gave his fortune away and enlisted in the Austrian army in WW1 ? In later years his students used to take him to see Westerns to unwind after his seminars but he had trouble following the plot !

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fresco-

Yes I did read about his military exploits and him giving all his money away.He was decorated too I gather.

But I was in the military and I know what can happen with stories and I know about charity too and all.Don't forget the young woman they rescued in Iraq.That wasn't the glorious heroics it was presented as at first.And that lot in Catch 22 which I know is fiction but it makes you think.

I think I would have quite liked the guy.Do you rule out him being a serious prankster?

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"Wittgenstein was a beery swine who was just as schloshed as Schlegel"

Heidigger Heidigger was a boozy beggar who could drink you under the table

David Hume could out consume Schopenhauer and Hegel

and thats all I can remember of philosophy lectures just at the moment

Plato they say could stick it away
Half a crate of whiskey every day

There's nothing Neitzche couldnt teach ya bout the raising of the wrist
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed.

............................

ah those were the days eh gf?

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Maybe they are coming back.Everything goes in circles as the brewery manager said to the sewage works superintendant.

I used to know a guy who I would put money on beating all that lot.He's in semi-retirement these days due to him having an apocalyptical doctor.And he was only about ten stone.It's a terrible affliction being able to tolerate alcohol.

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You guys are going to think I'm crazy or lying. My interest in philosophy is involuntary. I'm sure alot of you are the same. I couldn't stop thinking about it if I tried. About five years ago I started getting into existentialism. But I studied it half assed. From it I got that nothing matters and that there is no real truth or purpose to anything. This lead me to act out a Nihilistic lifesyle (I became a nihilist).

I quit my job. I decided my possessions were getting in the way of my pursuit of true freedom (physical and mental) so I Gave or sold them all away except my guitar, Three changes of clothes, books, some pictures and a petrified wood ashtray. If somebody came into my apartment and liked a picture on the wall I would take it off the wall and give it to them. I stopped paying all my bills. everything. The lights and gas went off in my apartment. Soon after that I loaded up a backpack (i hike) and walked out the front door. Totally free, any direction I wanted to go with $1000 dollers in my pocket. I still have that ashtray.

I understand existentialism better now. My veiw on philosophy now is that I profess to now nothing and as for nihilism if it is the truth, for my own good I pretend it isn't.

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Don't forget Amigo. and I loved your post,that Dylan said "one hand waving free".Not both.

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good advice.

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Yeah.He's great.

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

"Wittgenstein was a beery swine who was just as schloshed as Schlegel"

Heidigger Heidigger was a boozy beggar who could drink you under the table

David Hume could out consume Schopenhauer and Hegel

and thats all I can remember of philosophy lectures just at the moment

Plato they say could stick it away
Half a crate of whiskey every day

There's nothing Neitzche couldnt teach ya bout the raising of the wrist
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed.

............................

ah those were the days eh gf?

Definitely steve - I was told by an ex-lecturer from Flinders University who know works with my organisatiion that the whole song was on the door to the philosophy dept at the uni. It is (or was) what educators might call an "advance organiser" (well not really but it works for me). Very Happy

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So what do you make of tee-totalers then?

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Re: Does Philosophy Lead to Nihilism???
yardsale

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Is the ultimate destination for a philosopher, nihilism?

Why? Philosophy is nothing but critical reasoning. Not only in the questions but also in the answers.

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Philosophy calls all religious beliefs into question, eventually philosophers begin to undermine religion (even though some might cling to vestiges of it).

And what is the problem? I am an atheist, but not at all a nihilist. I believe in things. I believe in my experience of things as human being. And I do not believe in childish fantasies, even when they could provide me some comfort. Alcohol and drugs do the same and I don't believe in them as an "answer".

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After that ethics are brought down to relativity which undermines ethics.

To say that ethic or moral values depend on historical and cultural references, doesn't mean they have no value. It means only they have no absolute value. I believe that killing is wrong, rape is wrong, slavery is wrong. A Roman in Caesar's time, wouldn't agree.
But I live in my time, here and now.

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Then after a hard look at knowledge and its foundations philosopher begin undermining that as well. Nihilism does not say we can't know anything, that would be a logical fallacy. Nihilism simple undermines it. After dealing with the circular arguements of metaphysics we get fed up and forget about that as well.

We don't need any metaphysics. We have the world of our experience and it is all we have. Do you thing that rejecting fables, as the Bible, turns us nihilists? You are wrong.

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Nihilism is even skeptical of science and its usefulness as well as its workings. Philosophy is already skeptical of science not much of a change there. Science is useful but it is also analyzed with scrutiny.

Real science is always skeptical of science. NOt because of it's results, but because of it's principles.

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Everything just falls apart with the out look of a philosopher and what I'm saying is that this outcome is (usually) nihilism.

Nothing falls apart. Think critically. After that, accept what you think that must be accepted. And reject the rest.

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Does Philosophy Lead to Nihilism???

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