Who did you want to be like?

Yes to all of that.

Edgar, I am angry for you. I guess it is useless, the anger.

Well, edit to say not useless, but..
no words.

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Oh, well, I went fifty years without knowing if he was alive or dead. Now I know not to expect to find him anywhere.

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Diane, I believe we carry with us many of the characteristics of our parents - both good and bad. I didn't know my own parents well enough to know how much of them carried over to me. At any rate, I've often considered the fact that we had no choice about many aspects of life; 1) we are the product of all our ancestors, 2) environment and health, 3) economic opportunity, and 4) one's ability to overcome difficulties.

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Correct, CI. Of course, my Pa was a criminal, alcoholic and bad family man. I guess most of that skipped a generation with me.

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Sure sounds like it, edgar. You're good people.

dlowan wrote:

Wow, nurture (earth) and art and intellect and pizazz (fire): what a balance!

How have they affected you? What of them do you think you carry in you?

I think a whole lot of my parenting style is from P (my friend's mom). Sozlet is tempermentally much different from me when I was a kid, and reminds me a lot of M (my friend) when she was little. I was much more comfortable with being alone -- my mom worked, I was in various kinds of daycare and childcare and that was fine with me. I could entertain myself for hours with a package of markers and a few pieces of paper.

Sozlet is much more... high maintenance. I mean, she loves to draw et al but she really wants a lot more interaction and stimulation than I think I did. When I find myself in "ooh, I'm doing something just like ____", it's equally likely to be P and my own mom (or dad). (And definitely on consciously tossing out things about how my own parents raised me, while also trying not to ride the pendulum too far the other way... tricky.)

From my Aunt M (Auntie Em! Auntie Em!), I think there's more of a sense of needing to be self-sufficient, not too selfless, as P tended to be. (She ended up getting divorced and going back to work.) Something about fulfilling the intellectual side, brain stuff, trying to stay creative (hard, that.)

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Diane--

I was always aware that I was like my mother--that was a matter of family comment and legend.

In the last 15 years or so I'm realizing some of the ways in which I'm like my father.

Edgar--

Not all materialists are greedy for worldly wealth. Some are just factual dogs in mangers.

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Diane wrote:

Have any of you had the horrible epiphany that you do have some of the characteristics of your parents? There is an old saying, "Mirror, mirror on the wall, I am my mother after all." Oh the pain, the humiliation, the wry humor, realizing that you haven't totally put aside all the characteristics that were so offensive. There were times when raising my sons that I could hear my mother's voice as I scolded them for something. Sometimes it was really funny as I covered my mouth. At least I was able to reject the worst and, hopefully, retain the good traits.

Doesn't everyone have this epiphany?

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One of the satisfactory moments of my life was when my grown son admitted that during his stint as a teacher's aid for a classroom of ornery children that he found himself sounding like me.

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I guess there's a good reason why most of us think, someday, "omigawd! I sound like my mother!"

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I was the entertaining self for hours kid, as soz describes herself. Give me a box of buttons and even now I will be happy.

So it has been all learning with my totally social niece.

Still working on it, playing with it.

I think my original post about me and mine and models was fairly morose, spikey. I'll leave it unedited.

My key association was with my father, all too short a time.
My father and mother didn't get along for many reasonable reasons in my teens and early twenties. I instinctively sided with my father who had a wider view, was less judgemental, way more thoughtful and expressive, was a philosophy major in college, and fairly competent in the larger world.

Took me a long time to look openly at my defensive somewhat bitter mother whom I also see aspects of me in.

Long time, decades.

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littlek wrote:

Diane wrote:

Have any of you had the horrible epiphany that you do have some of the characteristics of your parents? There is an old saying, "Mirror, mirror on the wall, I am my mother after all." Oh the pain, the humiliation, the wry humor, realizing that you haven't totally put aside all the characteristics that were so offensive. There were times when raising my sons that I could hear my mother's voice as I scolded them for something. Sometimes it was really funny as I covered my mouth. At least I was able to reject the worst and, hopefully, retain the good traits.

Doesn't everyone have this epiphany?

Lol, only if they are capable of self reflection, and that sure isn't all humman beans.

Seriously.

I find myself terrifyingly like my father in many ways.....and also find less desirable characteristics of me mum, though I never got a distanced, adult, eye on her, so I am oddly unable to describe her personality; I tend to have more a rather uncoalesced ragbag of incidents and feelings, than a coherent narrative about who she was.

She WAS a damned good listener, though - all her friends came to her with problems.

Lol - difference is, I get paid! How's that for transmogrification?

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No, Deb, there was no one in my formative years whom I wanted to emulate. But there were plenty of people I knew I didn't want to be like. Succeeded in some areas and less so in others. I always felt like an outsider in my mother's family, even though they were the people I grew up with and spent lots of time with. Wasn't like them and didn't wanna be.

Then through a set of bizarre circumstances, I met the other side of the family, which had been estranged from us for many years. First the circumstances. On my first job I was editor of very technical scientific material for a journal. I picked up one article to work on and the name of the author was Robert (and my last name). Huh, says I. My last name is very uncommon. In fact my mother had some organization conduct a search of our last name, and the only people in the entire US with that last name were relatives. I called Robert ... He was my father's nephew. My first cousin. Our conversation led to a reunion. I loved this man and his sister and their families. And I felt like I belonged with them. Felt a part of them. A real connection. He was much older than me. I suspect that if he and his sister and his family had been a part of my younger life, I might have found someone to emulate there.

C'est la vie.

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Wow! That is interesting, and sad, dammit!

Did meeting them, even later on, have a blossoming sort of an effect on you, Boida?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Actually, the Mormons have one of the best genealgy records on this planet that is free for everybody. I have heard of people going to Salt Lake City to investigate their family tree, and they are very helpful at no cost.

I can concur on that. The Mormon records have been very helpful for my wife to research her family tree. No need to go to Salt Lake City though. Your local Morman Church can help out. If they don't have the records in-house, they can order them for you from SLC at a nominal fee.

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Roberta, I can't remember now how I got in contact with my Hawaiian cousin in Honolulu, but we have exchanged letters and email for several years now. When my brother-in-law was stationed at Hickam, my wife and I used to visit Hawaii regularly - almost every year or so, but after his move to California many years ago, we have not returned to Hawaii for a visit to meet my cousin. I'm looking forward to meeting her and her family after my wife retires early next year.

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Not so much a blossoming effect, Deb, as a sense of belonging. Finally! And the entire experience raised the issue of nature vs. nurture for me in a big way. How was it possible that I didn't feel a part of the people I had spent most of my life with while I instantly felt a part of people I'd just met?

Go figure.

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Indeed, Boida.

Makes you think about the genes, doesn't it?

Do you have ideas about how you came to be what you are, then?

It's funny....as soon as I was too old to force into a car I refused to see my father's rellies any more. Just had this revulsion... And, they were NOT bad people at all! Well, two of his sisters were kind of poisonous...but they just made me really depressed and kind of angry.

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dlowan wrote:

I am always trying to help kids see the reality of parents, (and parents to be able to deal enough with their own crap to actually give the child some real nurture and structure) see the underlying good intentions, and give them a sense of being able to CHOOSE to be like a worshipped father, for instance, in some ways, and NOT in others. A very difficult thig for kids to hold conflicting realities in their minds, hence the frequent split of separated parents into good/bad, or just the ongoing terrible tension of holding both as all good, when they do bad things, so the bad must be me, thinks the kid.

It must be a brutal job some days. I can see how there must be great rewards, too.

If you can instil critical thinking you give them choicesandhope.

Tip o' the hat.

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c.i., A joyous reunion to look forward to. I'm glad for you.

Deb, You asked, Do you have ideas about how you came to be what you are, then?

Not really. I'm so different from the people I spent most of my time with that I'm mystified. They thought I was a bit odd. Bookish. Quiet. Serious. Completely different values and interests. One might attribute such differences to my education (I went to college, and they didn't), but I was "different" long before college. Some of it must be in my genes. The rest? Quien sabe?

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"Deb, You asked, Do you have ideas about how you came to be what you are, then?"

Damned if I know.

Well, some of it I prolly DO know.....

A lot of my anxiety "scratchiness" and hyperarousal (of the anxious, hardwired kind, not THAT kind!!!) is very early trauma based, and learned (from me father).

Voice.......me mummy.

Sense of humour....THERE's a mystery.

I don't recall, really, any genuine humour from my father, or his side of the family, or much from my mother. Her side of the family have humour, but of a very different, practical jokey, kind. I think it is manic defence and learned and because of my verbal strengths.

Love of books.....father. And, from both parents reading to us. Also, my father and mother both nurtured as far as they were able my thirst for information. Very lucky there.

Had some lovely neighbour women, one especially, who was very loving and nurturing, intellectually so, too.

My sister was very loving.

A couple of brilliant teachers....and a number who gave me lots of encouragement for my English skills.

I feel kind of like a changeling, too, except my cousins from my favourite aunt are very ALIVE and emotionally generous. Very different people from me with very different interests, but intensely alive. But I hardly ever saw them...

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Who did you want to be like?

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